Betfair account closed - Funds with-held

[ForFolksSake]

Understandable, after devoting a good chunk of your life to them and being mistreated..

But it's nothing a nice holiday can't help remedy, I've got summer on my mind as well lately tbh

GL

[eightbo]

Quite frankly this thread is horrifying, I recall seeing another ~20 year account closure a few years ago on here

@megarain
Can't fathom why they would close your account, must have given one even if vague?  I'd chase them so hard for that $#!7

Some Q's which may help prevent more users getting stung in future (no stress if you cba to answer)
Q1  Any idea what they weren't satisfied with in particular regarding your submitted documents?
Q2  What were the amounts you deposited before/after "giving betfair 6k in 2hrs" (perhaps these were the source of the initial flag)
Q3  Do you happen to know what your "Spend Budget" amount/timeframe was? (Max. Deposit Limit on account [BFs side] — i.e. not Customer Deposit Limit)
Q4  If your goal was to preserve your BF account, and you could do things over, would you change anything?
Q5  Have you explored the legality of having one of your children implement your strategies?


@everyone
The following transcript from an anonymous Betfair Exchange user suggests that 'KYC' checks and/or affordability checks WON'T be triggered, so long as your account is operating at a profit:

Code: Select all

(Betfair Agent 3) at 13:37, Jan 14:
Yes, please go ahead with your questions

(Customer) at 13:39, Jan 14:
I'm planning on withdrawing/depositing larger amounts this year (e.g £5,000). I do not plan to deposit more than I have previously withdrawn. e.g. If I make +£20,000 from exchange profits and withdraw that, can i deposit £20,000 again without concern?

(Customer) at 13:40, Jan 14:
I do not plan to, for example, make £20,000, withdraw it, and then deposit OVER £20,000 – only ever £0-£20,000

(Customer) at 13:41, Jan 14:
I was just wondering if I'll trigger some KYC / affordability checks or whatever later in the year while doing this, as it'll be important for me that my deposits go through and not stall

(Customer) at 13:47, Jan 14:
Do you understand my enquiry?

(Betfair Agent 3) at 13:49, Jan 14:
Yes, I got you and understood your standpoint and yes, you can deposit without any concern.

(Customer) at 13:49, Jan 14:
Excellent. That's the main thing I wanted to know. I have a couple of simple follow up questions if you don't mind

(Customer) at 13:50, Jan 14:
1. I was just made aware of the £5,000 monthly deposit limit which resets on the 1st of the month. Is this amount fixed or is it changeable? (If it's fixed, is it perhaps increasable if my account meets certain criteria...?)

(Betfair Agent 3) at 14:02, Jan 14:
Thanks and, I need to transfer you to the relevant department and please stay connected while I transfer you to them.

(Customer) at 14:02, Jan 14:
Sure, thank you

Info at 14:02, Jan 14:
You are being transfered to another agent

Info at 14:02, Jan 14:
This is (Betfair Agent 4) and I will be looking after your query today. I will aim to reply within 2 minutes.

(Customer) at 14:02, Jan 14:
Hey (Betfair Agent 4), can you see my question or should I repost?

(Betfair Agent 4) at 14:04, Jan 14:
Hello there, (Customer), I hope you are doing well! Thank you for contacting us today! ??
Could you kindly bear with me for about 10 minutes while I load and review the previous conversation, and I will get back to you shortly, okay?

(Customer) at 14:04, Jan 14:
Sure. The important question for you here is the most recent one, regarding the £5,000 monthly deposit limit

(Customer) at 14:05, Jan 14:
Take your time I'll listen out for your reply

(Betfair Agent 4) at 14:07, Jan 14:
I see, thank you for clarifying that; So just to confirm, you are wondering if the Spend Budget on your account, which is currently £5000 per day, can be increased, is that correct?

(Customer) at 14:07, Jan 14:
Yes, I was told the £5000 per day is actually a monthly deposit limit which resets the 1st of every month, if I understood correctly

(Customer) at 14:08, Jan 14:
This is what (Betfair Agent 2) told me at 10:19 GMT, Jan 14

(Customer) at 14:09, Jan 14:
"monthly spend budget" of £5,000

(Customer) at 14:09, Jan 14:
I am enquiring whether or not that monthly spend budget of £5,000 is fixed, or if it's possible to increase at all

(Betfair Agent 4) at 14:15, Jan 14:
No, that wouldn't be correct, so as your Limit is £5000 per day, it will reset every calendar day, not every month.
 
This means that every day, you can deposit up to £5000 (if no further withdrawals are made on the day)
 
Here's how it works - This limit is based on deposits minus withdrawals within the given period (In your case it's per DAY); As an example, if your Spend Budget Limit is £5000, once you deposit £5000, the amount will be deducted for the day and the limit will be reached, but once you withdraw £5000, the Spend Budget will be reverted.
 
Also, if you want to increase the amount of this Spend Budget, this wouldn't be something we do within Customer Servies, but I would be able to provide you with an e-mail you can reach out to and everything that's needed from your end to make such a request. ??
 
I hope this clarifies it for you, and if you have any other questions, please let me know!

(Customer) at 14:18, Jan 14:
Yes that makes sense. Thank you for clarifying, especially per calendar day. Does this reset at midnight GMT (00:00), or is it a 24-hour type system e.g. if I deposit £5,000 on 10th January at 19:00, I can deposit another £5,000 at A. 11th January 00:00, or B. 11th Match 19:00 ?

(Customer) at 14:20, Jan 14:
B. 11th January 19:00**

(Betfair Agent 4) at 14:21, Jan 14:
It would be a calendar day reset and not a 24-hour rolling period in this case, as the limit works on predefined timeframes for daily/weekly/monthly periods and it resets each calendar day/week/month (In your case each calendar day).

(Customer) at 14:22, Jan 14:
Very well, this is very clear information – thank you.

(Customer) at 14:22, Jan 14:
"I would be able to provide you with an e-mail you can reach out to and everything that's needed from your end to make such a request. ??"

(Customer) at 14:22, Jan 14:
Could I please take you up on that email address / any details required

(Betfair Agent 4) at 14:24, Jan 14:
I am very glad this has now been clarified for you and I was able to help.
 
And sure, allow me just a moment and I will forward you the details regarding the Spend Budget Increase requests.

(Customer) at 14:26, Jan 14:
Sure take your time, thank you ????

(Betfair Agent 4) at 14:28, Jan 14:
If you would like to increase your Spend Budget, please email (email address), providing the following:
 
1. Your desired monthly Spend Budget
 
2. Proof of income, by providing supporting documents within ONE of the bellow options:
 
a) Three payslips covering the last three months
b) P60 or Tax calculation form covering the most recent tax year AND Bank Statement dated within the last three months
c) Three Bank Statements covering the last three months showing evidence of regular income and/or available savings.
 
If the above options are not applicable, please supply a full explanation as to how your account is funded.
When the review is completed, our team shall inform you of the outcome via e-mail.
 
In this case, I won’t be able to give you a timeframe for this process, as the team operates on a case-by-case basis, and as I mentioned above, it's not really something we do through the Customer Services, but they would be able to help you and guide you further from there.
 
I hope this clarifies this part as well.

(Customer) at 14:30, Jan 14:
Very helpful information, thank you. 

If anyone can provide links to account closure threads that contradict what's said here, please do so as they'd be highly relevant.

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I'd like to glean from this & other account closures.  It's likely that no plan is bulletproof here given Betfair could exercise discretion, but they likely have some automated processes at play which may get your account flagged, which would ideally be avoided.

Off the top of my head, this is a useful starting point: (feel free to expand or correct)
0.  Avoid depositing completely, if at all possible (the goal being to avoid any possible BF automated account flags resulting in evidence requests)
...Tips to stay deposit-free long-term:
      - Avoid high % bankroll exposure in any one market
      - Grow the account balance organically
      - Think ahead how much balance you'll need & ensure you don't over-withdraw (don't forget to account for possible drawdown)
      - Utilise Poker Wallet to park unused/reserved cash e.g. for future events
1A.  Know your current Spend Budget & Timeframe (Day/Month) amounts (in the customer's case above, it was £5,000/day)
1B.  If you're going to Deposit, deposit under your spend budget e.g. £4,999/day in the example's case, to avoid possible automated flag (unknown)
      - Consider setting a deposit limit to 0-99% of your spend budget, so you don't randomly forget one day
2.  Diversify income where possible (Reduces impact of sudden loss of income; May also be able to use this as "proof of funds" if you do get flagged)
3.  Have supporting documents ready in case they come knocking to pass an affordability check
      (e.g. 3x 1-month bank statements showing -£x is 'affordable' [discretionary term; prudency is your friend] ...where £x is your expected max deposit)
4.  If BF ever reach out for evidence, consider withdrawing your funds until you have a confirmed all-clear, to prevent a pot. arduous claim process

[eightbo]

...
I withdraw exactly the same amount on 28th of every month so it looks like a salary.

I like the idea of this but I fear running into the problem below (Large withdrawals triggering restrictions, taken from this thread)

Have you been affected by this? Or perhaps customers dodge this if withdrawals are <£5k ?

A recap and an update.

Our accounts have a Budget Limit facility. Something that Betfair set and we can't touch. Also, a Deposit Limit, which you can change and has a 7 day 'cooling off' period if you increase it.

I made a withdrawal from my account and it alerted their responsible gambling people. Why a large withdrawal would flag up a problem gambler is beyond me, but they decided to put a Budget Limit on my account. This meant I could only deposit £1,000 a month. Not good when you want to play with a £20k+ bank.

Anyway, we went through their online chat routine and they decided they would remove the Budget Limit.

A few months passed and everything was ok. I traded Goodwood and knew that I wouldn't be doing much until the Ebor meeting, so I withdrew 75% of my bank. Up popped the responsible gambling people again. We went through the thing and I get a £1,000 budget limit again. For good measure, they also set my Deposit Limit to £1,000.

There is no appeal process. I have a large turnover, been on there for years and my account is well in profit, but if they say you are a problem gambler, you're screwed.

Fortunately, a couple of our members PM'd me and gave me a couple of names and email addresses - thanks again guys. I'm not mentioning any names, but you know who you are and I am eternally grateful.

A few days passed and I was contacted by the Betfair complaints people. A huge and extremely overworked department no doubt. We agreed that the Budget Limit and Deposit Limit could be removed. Unfortunately, I still can't make a deposit until the 7-day cooling off period is up. No way round that, even though it was them that changed it, responsible gambling protocol.

Extremely frustrating trying to trade a big meeting with just 25% of my bank, but at least I'm up and running and can get the money in for the next big meeting. Don't think I will be making any big withdrawals for a while though.

[Derek27]

...
I withdraw exactly the same amount on 28th of every month so it looks like a salary.

I like the idea of this but I fear running into the problem below (Large withdrawals triggering restrictions, taken from this thread)

Have you been affected by this? Or perhaps customers dodge this if withdrawals are <£5k ?

A recap and an update.

Our accounts have a Budget Limit facility. Something that Betfair set and we can't touch. Also, a Deposit Limit, which you can change and has a 7 day 'cooling off' period if you increase it.

I made a withdrawal from my account and it alerted their responsible gambling people. Why a large withdrawal would flag up a problem gambler is beyond me, but they decided to put a Budget Limit on my account. This meant I could only deposit £1,000 a month. Not good when you want to play with a £20k+ bank.

Anyway, we went through their online chat routine and they decided they would remove the Budget Limit.

A few months passed and everything was ok. I traded Goodwood and knew that I wouldn't be doing much until the Ebor meeting, so I withdrew 75% of my bank. Up popped the responsible gambling people again. We went through the thing and I get a £1,000 budget limit again. For good measure, they also set my Deposit Limit to £1,000.

There is no appeal process. I have a large turnover, been on there for years and my account is well in profit, but if they say you are a problem gambler, you're screwed.

Fortunately, a couple of our members PM'd me and gave me a couple of names and email addresses - thanks again guys. I'm not mentioning any names, but you know who you are and I am eternally grateful.

A few days passed and I was contacted by the Betfair complaints people. A huge and extremely overworked department no doubt. We agreed that the Budget Limit and Deposit Limit could be removed. Unfortunately, I still can't make a deposit until the 7-day cooling off period is up. No way round that, even though it was them that changed it, responsible gambling protocol.

Extremely frustrating trying to trade a big meeting with just 25% of my bank, but at least I'm up and running and can get the money in for the next big meeting. Don't think I will be making any big withdrawals for a while though.

I don't think Betfair would have an issue with people winning a large sum of money and withdrawing it. The problem may be that when people deposit and withdraw without using the funds, which of course many genuine circumstances can give rise to, from Betfair's perspective the customer appears to be using their account as a bank account. This would cost them money in administration without generating commission/PC.

[Kai]

Ofc I agree it's all highly relevant to all parties etc

But if OP is too jaded of openly discussing every detail after doing it for 6 tortuous months I suggest moving the next round of potential discussions to another thread

[megarain]

Ofc I agree it's all highly relevant to all parties etc

But if OP is too jaded of openly discussing every detail after doing it for 6 tortuous months I suggest moving the next round of potential discussions to another thread

100%

[Consty1]

A mate of mine who's a full time football trader is also having issues currently with his account being constantly suspended. His was also triggered by a deposit. Despite his efforts, communication is almost non existent. He even provides liquidity/market makes the football side markets and they still won't cut him any slack.

I trade quite large positions in football match odds but never deposit, and I've escaped any account scrutiny for years.

I wish there was the possibility of using software on the plethora of Betfair skins available.

[Euler]

I wish there was the possibility of using software on the plethora of Betfair skins available.

Betfair have made it very clear to us, that this will never be allowed to happen.

[Euler]

A mate of mine who's a full time football trader is also having issues currently with his account being constantly suspended. His was also triggered by a deposit. Despite his efforts, communication is almost non existent. He even provides liquidity/market makes the football side markets and they still won't cut him any slack.

I trade quite large positions in football match odds but never deposit, and I've escaped any account scrutiny for years.

I wish there was the possibility of using software on the plethora of Betfair skins available.

I had a funny issue recently.

Long story, but thanks to history, Bet Angel and so on, I've always had more than one account.

Last year compliance asked me to withdraw all funds and start a new account structure.

Suddenly last week they demand source of funds and verification for the new accounts. To which I replied, I refer you to your message telling me to do it and the source of funds is the withdrawals you forced me to make.

So I'm pretty sure, it's deposits that are triggering a lot of this angst.

[LeTiss]

I trade quite large positions in football match odds but never deposit, and I've escaped any account scrutiny for years.

I haven't deposited anything for well over a year, and fingers crossed....I've had no verification issues with Betfair
I used to withdraw money and re-deposit it for security reasons, but since 2FA was introduced I stopped with that, as I had more confidence that my bank was safe

It seems to me from speaking around, that it's deposits that are the issue, not one's activity or withdrawals

[jamesedwards]

I concur with this. I've had some occasional huge losses and make regular large withdrawals, but I havent deposited in years and as of yet (touch wood) have had no verification issues.

The important thing always seems to be about where the account is funded from, both from an affordability and AML point of view, so it makes sense that deposits are usually the trigger.

[Consty1]

I wish there was the possibility of using software on the plethora of Betfair skins available.

Betfair have made it very clear to us, that this will never be allowed to happen.

Yea I remember you saying in the past. I'd probably pay a decent amount for software on a BF skin with no premium charge.

[Archery1969]

I wonder if you deposited from the same bank that BF /PP uses then would the trigger(s) be initiated ?

[Nero Tulip]

I seemed to trigger a compliance request for up to date ID today by making a small withdrawal yesterday (first time in a while and funds arrived fine). hopefully what I sent is ok, frustratingly the chap that sent it to me has an out of office reply set up saying he's away until after the deadline ! Sent it all to a couple of other people, hopefully they forward it on and things are ok, will post in if I hit any more bother. It's quite sad reading this thread. When you consider the sort of freedoms we had in the 2000s for transferring money in order to trade, it's unrecognisable.

[Euler]

I wish there was the possibility of using software on the plethora of Betfair skins available.

Betfair have made it very clear to us, that this will never be allowed to happen.

Yea I remember you saying in the past. I'd probably pay a decent amount for software on a BF skin with no premium charge.

I have a meeting with them next week, so will ask again. I always have a list of things I've asked before that I always ask. So I'll add this to them.