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Archery1969
Posts: 3493
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:25 am
Location: Newport

greenmark wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 7:49 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 5:25 pm
greenmark wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 3:44 pm

Plus, due to the lack of investment in the NHS it's unravelling and they have the whip hand. Pay up or do you want to be treated by a doctor that feels under-valued and/or doesn't have enough colleagues to do the job he/she wants to do?
I've known quite a few medics and they vary from despair to a shrug about the support they recieve to do their jobs as they would wish,
It's a vocation. I know someone that walked away from medicine to be a plant hire office manager. She's better paid, works more comfortable hours and people rarely die on her shift. Go figure.
I wouldn't call £171.8 Billion (KingsFund figures) between 2022/2023 a lack of investment ?
The Health Foundation says
Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person – 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655.

If UK spending per person had matched the EU14 average, then the UK would have spent an average of £227bn a year on health between 2010 and 2019 – £40bn higher than actual average annual spending during this period (£187bn).

Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK.

Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).

I acknowledge 2019 is 5 years ago. Do you reckon investment in the NHS has improved since then? Even the 2022/2023 figure is below the EU14 average for 2010-2019.
As always if anyone can point me to a resource to expand my understanding I would be genuinely grateful. This stuff is important I think.
You cant really compare like for like with EU spending on healthcare, espeically France and Germany as they have a different system. There system is funded by employee/employer % contributions with the Governments funding those with no job or income below x amount of Euros. If you employed that type of system in the UK then you could fund healthcare to the tune of around £350 Billion per year. Which with the right managment would be 100% better in terms of healthcare per head of population etc.

The problem with the UK is nobody, apart from a few want to change the system, meaning the Government will always have to find an amount of money which continues to grow year by year.

The UK population and Government needs educating on healthcare as its not 1946.
greenmark
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

Archery1969 wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 8:00 pm
greenmark wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 7:49 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 5:25 pm


I wouldn't call £171.8 Billion (KingsFund figures) between 2022/2023 a lack of investment ?
The Health Foundation says
Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person – 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655.

If UK spending per person had matched the EU14 average, then the UK would have spent an average of £227bn a year on health between 2010 and 2019 – £40bn higher than actual average annual spending during this period (£187bn).

Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK.

Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).

I acknowledge 2019 is 5 years ago. Do you reckon investment in the NHS has improved since then? Even the 2022/2023 figure is below the EU14 average for 2010-2019.
As always if anyone can point me to a resource to expand my understanding I would be genuinely grateful. This stuff is important I think.
You cant really compare like for like with EU spending on healthcare, espeically France and Germany as they have a different system. There system is funded by employee/employer % contributions with the Governments funding those with no job or income below x amount of Euros. If you employed that type of system in the UK then you could fund healthcare to the tune of around £350 Billion per year. Which with the right managment would be 100% better in terms of healthcare per head of population etc.

The problem with the UK is nobody, apart from a few want to change the system, meaning the Government will always have to find an amount of money which continues to grow year by year.

The UK population and Government needs educating on healthcare as its not 1946.
OK thanks. Some more homework for me. :-) But you skirted the figures a bit there. We don't spend as much as EU14. And have not done so for a long time. And your suggestion that healthcare would be 100% better under a different system really does require some supporting references. But I shall leave this one here until I've delved a bit more. But again if you can point me to some resources I would be genuinely grateful.
Archery1969
Posts: 3493
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:25 am
Location: Newport

greenmark wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 8:23 pm
Archery1969 wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 8:00 pm
greenmark wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2024 7:49 pm

The Health Foundation says
Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person – 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655.

If UK spending per person had matched the EU14 average, then the UK would have spent an average of £227bn a year on health between 2010 and 2019 – £40bn higher than actual average annual spending during this period (£187bn).

Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK.

Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).

I acknowledge 2019 is 5 years ago. Do you reckon investment in the NHS has improved since then? Even the 2022/2023 figure is below the EU14 average for 2010-2019.
As always if anyone can point me to a resource to expand my understanding I would be genuinely grateful. This stuff is important I think.
You cant really compare like for like with EU spending on healthcare, espeically France and Germany as they have a different system. There system is funded by employee/employer % contributions with the Governments funding those with no job or income below x amount of Euros. If you employed that type of system in the UK then you could fund healthcare to the tune of around £350 Billion per year. Which with the right managment would be 100% better in terms of healthcare per head of population etc.

The problem with the UK is nobody, apart from a few want to change the system, meaning the Government will always have to find an amount of money which continues to grow year by year.

The UK population and Government needs educating on healthcare as its not 1946.
OK thanks. Some more homework for me. :-) But you skirted the figures a bit there. We don't spend as much as EU14. And have not done so for a long time. And your suggestion that healthcare would be 100% better under a different system really does require some supporting references. But I shall leave this one here until I've delved a bit more. But again if you can point me to some resources I would be genuinely grateful.
Have a look at Healthcare systems in France, Germany, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, Austria, Switzerland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Singapore and South Korea.

Their systems are made up of employee/employer contributions for Healthcare and Private pensions.

All those countries above have better outcomes for cancer, stroke and heart attacks by a mile compared to the UK. Plus the pensions are way better.

The UK system is outdated. Everyone pays National Insurance but there is no breakdown as to where your money goes. Just one big black hole which has to fund healthcare, state pension, social care and good knows what else.

At the moment in the UK, employers don’t contribute to the healthcare system unless it’s private, many don’t offer that to employees and if they do the employee still has to pay national insurance plus their private contributions are classed as a taxable benefit so they get clobbered again in more tax.

I understand the original idea behind the NHS but that was 70+ years ago when there was mass unemployment but it was designed for a totally different population demographic.

This argument to say it should be free at the point of deliver is utter rubbish because people pay into it anyway by national insurance contributions, it’s just terminology that people get hung up on.

Better to have an employee and employer pay 10% each into healthcare and pensions system. That would generate a vast some of money to properly fund healthcare, social care and pensions. It would also mean the government can then shift of £100 Billion or so into other areas like education and defence. Basically the government would only need to take of those with no job but pay them a proper income while looking for work. Lookup what happens in Scandinavian countries when you unemployed, you get 80% income of your last annual salary, not £79 per week or whatever it is now.
andy28
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:06 am
Location: NZ

Their systems are made up of employee/employer contributions for Healthcare and Private pensions

New Zealand is not like that, Health is mostly Govt funded, you can do what I did while I was working and take out private Healthcare but still had to pay my taxes, It got to the point I had to give it up as it was increasing 10%pa (which is the max they can do) because I was getting older. Our Doctors and Nurses are heading off shore, mostly to Australia and the UK, our pay rates for Health care, Police, Armed forces, Teachers are so low they get trained and leave, Australia is always trying to poach them. My niece is a nurse and she left and is now working in London

I do pay into Kiwi Saver as it is a good scheme but many cant afford to do so, so they opt out, only 67% have it, the other 33% will turn to the Govt for the pension.

New Zealand is in a mess and there is no light in site
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firlandsfarm
Posts: 2765
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:20 am

What I don't understand is why the Government and only the Government are blamed for poor NHS performance (your turn is coming Labour). I can't remember the last time I saw an article detailing how well the NHS management was doing.
sionascaig
Posts: 1142
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:38 am

firlandsfarm wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 5:52 am
What I don't understand is why the Government and only the Government are blamed for poor NHS performance (your turn is coming Labour). I can't remember the last time I saw an article detailing how well the NHS management was doing.
If you watched the NHS exec's giving evidence during the covid enquiry would not have been impressed...

"After taking the oath, Stevens ran through his job description at NHS England. The inquiry counsel Andrew O’Connor KC looked baffled. He hadn’t understood a word. It appeared Stevens had been employed mostly to not do anything. His inactivity guaranteed him a performance-related bonus. Simple Simon looked delighted. His spell in the witness box was already going to plan."

"It turned out that Stevens was just the warmup act. The hors d’oeuvre. The real masterclass in time-wasting came from Christopher Wormald. The permanent secretary of the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC). The king of the time wasters. Pen pusher extraordinaire. The man who had never come across a form that he didn’t want to fill out in triplicate. The Sir Humphrey for whom silence was the Pavlovian response to any question. Quickly followed by a stream of unconsciousness. Time and again, the lead counsel Hugo Keith KC had to beg him to listen to what he was saying."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... me-wasting
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jimibt
Posts: 3796
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
Location: Narnia

hard to believe that this pizza went rogue after such a promising start!! (all the hallmarks of THE perfect pizza) :roll: ..

piazza.jpeg

However ... it then STUCK to the paddle (even tho i put polenta over the paddle to prevent this - tho obviously not enough). It then set off all the smoke alarms after 45 seconds of struggle. to add insult to injury, even tho it should only take max 2 mins, after this, it was still semi-raw with the house filled with smoke and alarms going off for 20-30 mins thereafter..
oh well </rant>.

lessons learned!? - even if you think it'll slide off the paddle, make sure it's going to do so before trying to wiggle (/lunge) it off in the pizza oven. :geek: </middleclassworry>
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firlandsfarm
Posts: 2765
Joined: Sat May 03, 2014 8:20 am

jimibt wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:05 pm
hard to believe that this pizza went rogue after such a promising start!! (all the hallmarks of THE perfect pizza) :roll: ..


piazza.jpeg


However ... it then STUCK to the paddle (even tho i put polenta over the paddle to prevent this - tho obviously not enough). It then set off all the smoke alarms after 45 seconds of struggle. to add insult to injury, even tho it should only take max 2 mins, after this, it was still semi-raw with the house filled with smoke and alarms going off for 20-30 mins thereafter..
oh well </rant>.

lessons learned!? - even if you think it'll slide off the paddle, make sure it's going to do so before trying to wiggle (/lunge) it off in the pizza oven. :geek: </middleclassworry>
was that a pizza version of Mr Bean and the turkey?!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Derek27
Posts: 24361
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

I'm flipping sick of getting separate gas and electricity bills at random times for random periods. Why can't the idiots just bill you monthly?
greenmark
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

jimibt wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:05 pm
hard to believe that this pizza went rogue after such a promising start!! (all the hallmarks of THE perfect pizza) :roll: ..


piazza.jpeg


However ... it then STUCK to the paddle (even tho i put polenta over the paddle to prevent this - tho obviously not enough). It then set off all the smoke alarms after 45 seconds of struggle. to add insult to injury, even tho it should only take max 2 mins, after this, it was still semi-raw with the house filled with smoke and alarms going off for 20-30 mins thereafter..
oh well </rant>.

lessons learned!? - even if you think it'll slide off the paddle, make sure it's going to do so before trying to wiggle (/lunge) it off in the pizza oven. :geek: </middleclassworry>
Too much stuff? Less is more. More or less.
It's a fast bread. It takes nno time to cook. I did one a while ago in the oven on a teflon perforated disc and the major problem was shaping the edge to contain the liquid until the heat evaporated it. Then you have to be eagle-eyed. DO NOT walk away for a chat.
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jimibt
Posts: 3796
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
Location: Narnia

greenmark wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:28 am
jimibt wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:05 pm
hard to believe that this pizza went rogue after such a promising start!! (all the hallmarks of THE perfect pizza) :roll: ..


piazza.jpeg


However ... it then STUCK to the paddle (even tho i put polenta over the paddle to prevent this - tho obviously not enough). It then set off all the smoke alarms after 45 seconds of struggle. to add insult to injury, even tho it should only take max 2 mins, after this, it was still semi-raw with the house filled with smoke and alarms going off for 20-30 mins thereafter..
oh well </rant>.

lessons learned!? - even if you think it'll slide off the paddle, make sure it's going to do so before trying to wiggle (/lunge) it off in the pizza oven. :geek: </middleclassworry>
Too much stuff? Less is more. More or less.
It's a fast bread. It takes nno time to cook. I did one a while ago in the oven on a teflon perforated disc and the major problem was shaping the edge to contain the liquid until the heat evaporated it. Then you have to be eagle-eyed. DO NOT walk away for a chat.
i'm using a cozze pizza oven that goes up to 450% C. it's normally a huge success. the issue last night (wine excepted!!) is that the pizza got stuck on the paddle and eventually did go into the oven. however, it then stuck on the stone and when prising it out, it kinda flipped up and got mangled into the elemnts on the top of the oven. nightmare and ears still ringing from smoke alarm. i truly did learn the lesson that if it don't slide on the paddle, don't slide it into the oven!!

https://cozzebbq.com/pizza-oven-electric/

[edit] -and yes in theory, it was quite a stuffed pizza, but it normally comes out fine. think it was the elation of the england game that blunted my focus!!
Last edited by jimibt on Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jimibt
Posts: 3796
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
Location: Narnia

firlandsfarm wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:50 am
jimibt wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:05 pm
hard to believe that this pizza went rogue after such a promising start!! (all the hallmarks of THE perfect pizza) :roll: ..


piazza.jpeg


However ... it then STUCK to the paddle (even tho i put polenta over the paddle to prevent this - tho obviously not enough). It then set off all the smoke alarms after 45 seconds of struggle. to add insult to injury, even tho it should only take max 2 mins, after this, it was still semi-raw with the house filled with smoke and alarms going off for 20-30 mins thereafter..
oh well </rant>.

lessons learned!? - even if you think it'll slide off the paddle, make sure it's going to do so before trying to wiggle (/lunge) it off in the pizza oven. :geek: </middleclassworry>
was that a pizza version of Mr Bean and the turkey?!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
more or less -yes. complete sh!tfest -lol
greenmark
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 pm

jimibt wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:40 am
greenmark wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:28 am
jimibt wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2024 11:05 pm
hard to believe that this pizza went rogue after such a promising start!! (all the hallmarks of THE perfect pizza) :roll: ..


piazza.jpeg


However ... it then STUCK to the paddle (even tho i put polenta over the paddle to prevent this - tho obviously not enough). It then set off all the smoke alarms after 45 seconds of struggle. to add insult to injury, even tho it should only take max 2 mins, after this, it was still semi-raw with the house filled with smoke and alarms going off for 20-30 mins thereafter..
oh well </rant>.

lessons learned!? - even if you think it'll slide off the paddle, make sure it's going to do so before trying to wiggle (/lunge) it off in the pizza oven. :geek: </middleclassworry>
Too much stuff? Less is more. More or less.
It's a fast bread. It takes nno time to cook. I did one a while ago in the oven on a teflon perforated disc and the major problem was shaping the edge to contain the liquid until the heat evaporated it. Then you have to be eagle-eyed. DO NOT walk away for a chat.
i'm using a cozze pizza oven that goes up to 450% C. it's normally a huge success. the issue last night (wine excepted!!) is that the pizza got stuck on the paddle and eventually did go into the oven. however, it then stuck on the stone and when prising it out, it kinda flipped up and got mangled into the elemnts on the top of the oven. nightmare and ears still ringing from smoke alarm. i truly did learn the lesson that if it don't slide on the paddle, don't slide it into the oven!!

https://cozzebbq.com/pizza-oven-electric/
:lol: Sorry for laughing but it's only in recognition of how culinary exploits can go very wrong. I once did a biryani you could have rendered your wall with. Starch is really very effective. Lesson: Rinse rice till th water runs clear.
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jimibt
Posts: 3796
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:42 pm
Location: Narnia

greenmark wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:47 am
jimibt wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:40 am
greenmark wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 11:28 am

Too much stuff? Less is more. More or less.
It's a fast bread. It takes nno time to cook. I did one a while ago in the oven on a teflon perforated disc and the major problem was shaping the edge to contain the liquid until the heat evaporated it. Then you have to be eagle-eyed. DO NOT walk away for a chat.
i'm using a cozze pizza oven that goes up to 450% C. it's normally a huge success. the issue last night (wine excepted!!) is that the pizza got stuck on the paddle and eventually did go into the oven. however, it then stuck on the stone and when prising it out, it kinda flipped up and got mangled into the elemnts on the top of the oven. nightmare and ears still ringing from smoke alarm. i truly did learn the lesson that if it don't slide on the paddle, don't slide it into the oven!!

https://cozzebbq.com/pizza-oven-electric/
:lol: Sorry for laughing but it's only in recognition of how culinary exploits can go very wrong. I once did a biryani you could have rendered your wall with. Starch is really very effective. Lesson: Rinse rice till th water runs clear.
oh yes, that definitely is up there; the stodgy rice goop... :lol:
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Derek27
Posts: 24361
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

I've set my background to slideshow but Windows keeps changing it to a static picture. It may not be the worst problem in the world or as troublesome as troubleshooting boot issues, but it's driving me flipping nuts!
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