I think the first thing is to introduce Betdaq SP.
I often use Betdaq with the lower commission etc. but it is frustrating that you cannot take Betdaq SP.
Have your say on the future of BETDAQ
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lesblakeman
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:02 pm
A state of the art API , no PC , commission charges don't really bother me so 5% is fine by me , just a solid reliable platform , a sort of pre-privation Betfair really.
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
for a change it looks like we're all pretty much in agreement!, and mugsgame's comment summarises it nicely.
it's simple then BETDAQ, give the people what they want - a good principle for most successful businesses.
it's simple then BETDAQ, give the people what they want - a good principle for most successful businesses.
yup completely agree here. Can't ask any more of the above as a general feedback of the direction needed. I wouldn't actually mind a reasonable PC. I am not averse to paying my fair share but when it makes it more profitable to be sat in an office than risk my own money on an exchange its time to call it quits for a lot of traders. If you want the traders you need sensible charges and a solid platform. You have 50% of that already!lesblakeman wrote:A state of the art API , no PC , commission charges don't really bother me so 5% is fine by me , just a solid reliable platform , a sort of pre-privation Betfair really.
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marksmeets302
- Posts: 527
- Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:37 pm
My take:
- I'd like to see the ability to request historical prices through the API.
- Aside from requesting a list of trades, being able to request your matched and unmatched position (net backed/layed for .. at ..)
- introduction of betdaq SP and corresponding order types
- Immediate-or-cancel orders
- Less throttling (willing to pay for that if it boils down to free vs professional api)
- be able to tag an order with some short text string (like "hedge013")
- Open up access to dutch citizens again (why are we no longer allowed to withdraw money, while it is perfectly fine to do it at betfair?)
Aside from that, totally agree with Mugsgames post.
regards,
Mark.
- I'd like to see the ability to request historical prices through the API.
- Aside from requesting a list of trades, being able to request your matched and unmatched position (net backed/layed for .. at ..)
- introduction of betdaq SP and corresponding order types
- Immediate-or-cancel orders
- Less throttling (willing to pay for that if it boils down to free vs professional api)
- be able to tag an order with some short text string (like "hedge013")
- Open up access to dutch citizens again (why are we no longer allowed to withdraw money, while it is perfectly fine to do it at betfair?)
Aside from that, totally agree with Mugsgames post.
regards,
Mark.
I see allot of suggestions here for the improvement of the Betdaq exchange, which don't get me wrong is all good, but there is only one issue that needs addressing as far as im concerned.
5% commissions for all, with no P.c and no restriction on winners accounts.
job done
don't really care about the rest tbh that can be sorted later. no point in being Betfair Mk 2 and haveing loads of gimmicks and unnecessary twaddle and then slappping massive charges on you for the privilege.
5% commissions for all, with no P.c and no restriction on winners accounts.
job done
don't really care about the rest tbh that can be sorted later. no point in being Betfair Mk 2 and haveing loads of gimmicks and unnecessary twaddle and then slappping massive charges on you for the privilege.
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giulio2010
- Posts: 962
- Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:11 am
I make requests in behalf of other people as well. Do Betdaq has plans to obtain a license in Italy? If yes how long will it take to obtain it?
How can I have a guarantee that my money is protected if left over night on my Betdaq account? (which Betfair today does not guarantee for obvious security issues)
...How long will it take to receive my money after a withdraw with sums in excess of 250K?.( Betfair seems to have an issue with that)..
What guarantees us that our Betdaq account is not closed because is winner account?.
(Do not try to ignore that ladbrokes is world famous not for its efficiency, but for closing winning accounts). Not to mention the various issues that we are currently having with betfair related to PC, xmatching and jumping in front of the queue. If betdaq can give us a secuirity on such issues ( dont need to lie to get our business) we will defenately move straight forward even though the liquidity is not as good to begin with...
How can I have a guarantee that my money is protected if left over night on my Betdaq account? (which Betfair today does not guarantee for obvious security issues)
...How long will it take to receive my money after a withdraw with sums in excess of 250K?.( Betfair seems to have an issue with that)..
What guarantees us that our Betdaq account is not closed because is winner account?.
(Do not try to ignore that ladbrokes is world famous not for its efficiency, but for closing winning accounts). Not to mention the various issues that we are currently having with betfair related to PC, xmatching and jumping in front of the queue. If betdaq can give us a secuirity on such issues ( dont need to lie to get our business) we will defenately move straight forward even though the liquidity is not as good to begin with...
Everyone hates the idea of Betfair's premium charges (even those who don't profit, but aspire to do so, i.e. everyone), so clearly the introduction of a similar Betdaq scheme will almost guarantee failure for Betdaq version 2.
Never ban winners. Doing so will create such a negative online vibe, that you'll lose customers faster than a flock of pigeons can fly away from an unruly kid in a playground. And without winners, there's no-one for the losers to bet against.
If times for the company are hard, and you really need to "tax" those who use the exchange more, then why not introduce a monthly flat fee for "premium" API access? E.g. either go with the "over x API requests per month - £29.99" route, "over y API requests per minute - £29.99" route, or simply exclude important trader-related API functionality from the basic API model.
People don't mind paying fixed charges if such charges are not proportional to their winnings, and if they're given the opportunity to opt-in. Mentally, people have accounted for such charges (even if they lose). Once the customer has subscribed, it's then up to them to work as hard as possible with the additional functionality (and the potential advantage it gives them over non-paying customers) to make a profit. And as much profit as they can without further penalisation.
The above model would not only be preferred to Betfair's crazy model, but you would also willingly receive monthly payments from losing accounts - and there are far more of those than winning accounts! All losing accounts generally aspire to become winning accounts, so I think you'd be surprised at how many monthly payments you'd receive!
If the above idea seems like a good idea, then don't merely discuss it at Betdaq HQ, then subsequently roll it out with the assumption that we'll all accept it. Discuss it on a forum such as this, and have your customers determine how the system should work. I'm not arrogant enough to think this is a one-size-fits-all solution, so neither should you be. Everyone needs a say, no matter how big or how small a customer they are.
If Betfair are reading - I originally thought of this potential solution months back, but never bothered telling them because I knew they wouldn't listen. Maybe Betdaq could also be different in this regard by listening to customers (the creation of this thread itself goes someway towards showing this).
In a related thought... I think customer focus groups would be great. Set up a meeting in London or elsewhere, and have casual gamblers, professional backers and layers, and traders come in to tell you what they really think of your site, system, API, charges, customer service, etc.
If anyone's wondering why I'm giving Betdaq ideas on how to make more money from their customers, it's simple: if we don't give them ideas, then they'll come up with their own. How would've things turned out with Betfair if they'd publicly discussed the idea of "Premium Charges" before launching them? I can bet their model would've been drastically more accepted than it currently is. They'd probably be making more money from it, too.
Never ban winners. Doing so will create such a negative online vibe, that you'll lose customers faster than a flock of pigeons can fly away from an unruly kid in a playground. And without winners, there's no-one for the losers to bet against.
If times for the company are hard, and you really need to "tax" those who use the exchange more, then why not introduce a monthly flat fee for "premium" API access? E.g. either go with the "over x API requests per month - £29.99" route, "over y API requests per minute - £29.99" route, or simply exclude important trader-related API functionality from the basic API model.
People don't mind paying fixed charges if such charges are not proportional to their winnings, and if they're given the opportunity to opt-in. Mentally, people have accounted for such charges (even if they lose). Once the customer has subscribed, it's then up to them to work as hard as possible with the additional functionality (and the potential advantage it gives them over non-paying customers) to make a profit. And as much profit as they can without further penalisation.
The above model would not only be preferred to Betfair's crazy model, but you would also willingly receive monthly payments from losing accounts - and there are far more of those than winning accounts! All losing accounts generally aspire to become winning accounts, so I think you'd be surprised at how many monthly payments you'd receive!
If the above idea seems like a good idea, then don't merely discuss it at Betdaq HQ, then subsequently roll it out with the assumption that we'll all accept it. Discuss it on a forum such as this, and have your customers determine how the system should work. I'm not arrogant enough to think this is a one-size-fits-all solution, so neither should you be. Everyone needs a say, no matter how big or how small a customer they are.
If Betfair are reading - I originally thought of this potential solution months back, but never bothered telling them because I knew they wouldn't listen. Maybe Betdaq could also be different in this regard by listening to customers (the creation of this thread itself goes someway towards showing this).
In a related thought... I think customer focus groups would be great. Set up a meeting in London or elsewhere, and have casual gamblers, professional backers and layers, and traders come in to tell you what they really think of your site, system, API, charges, customer service, etc.
If anyone's wondering why I'm giving Betdaq ideas on how to make more money from their customers, it's simple: if we don't give them ideas, then they'll come up with their own. How would've things turned out with Betfair if they'd publicly discussed the idea of "Premium Charges" before launching them? I can bet their model would've been drastically more accepted than it currently is. They'd probably be making more money from it, too.
As mentioned above I don't mind paying commission, even fixed 10% with no discounts etc. (2% is much lower than I am prepared to pay) because I treat it as my contribution to the costs of running exchange. Even 20% is kind of fair although I don't feel comfortable with it, but more than 20 is way to much for the risks taken and time spent learning. If you avoid the biggest mistake betfair did - setting a cap on what people can make (250k), it will be extremely hard to get a fresh breed of traders willing to "pursuit the dream". It is obvious, that when people decide to dedicate time and effort into something, they are calculating risks and rewards. If they see a cap on what they will eventually make, the risks are really high and benefits do not make up for it. 250k is not much when you look at it in the longer term.
Many of those who already have been making reasonable to good money, have already invested their time and effort to learn the game - stayed after increasing PC, but we need new traders and punters, who have to pay their "learning fees" and make mistakes so we all can grow, place larger bets, get bigger winnings and pay larger comission. If Betdaq takes this kind of approach and make the wheel turning, stories about those who succeeded will spread to those aspiring to succeed.
I for example, before starting trading horses, was trading futures. I would laugh at my friend who was learning to trade horses ... asking what is the point of doing it? My attitude changed when he showed me Peter's and Adam's blogs. I had this doubt that posted results may be false, but at least I decided to give it a go. I liked it and now, the only reason I would get back to financials would be unlimited depth of those markets (from an individual point of view). Sport markets lack this depth, but on the other side there is this higher volatility which I prefer much more.
in summary, what I am trying to say is, that those who make money, and feel that the exchange is fair to them will spread the word, and attract newcomers, as it was in the early days with betfair. If people feel like the exchange is a parasite (like I do about bf), they will hesitate before recommending it to friends etc. This is true with any product and service.
This is just my opinion, correct me if I am wrong.
Many of those who already have been making reasonable to good money, have already invested their time and effort to learn the game - stayed after increasing PC, but we need new traders and punters, who have to pay their "learning fees" and make mistakes so we all can grow, place larger bets, get bigger winnings and pay larger comission. If Betdaq takes this kind of approach and make the wheel turning, stories about those who succeeded will spread to those aspiring to succeed.
I for example, before starting trading horses, was trading futures. I would laugh at my friend who was learning to trade horses ... asking what is the point of doing it? My attitude changed when he showed me Peter's and Adam's blogs. I had this doubt that posted results may be false, but at least I decided to give it a go. I liked it and now, the only reason I would get back to financials would be unlimited depth of those markets (from an individual point of view). Sport markets lack this depth, but on the other side there is this higher volatility which I prefer much more.
in summary, what I am trying to say is, that those who make money, and feel that the exchange is fair to them will spread the word, and attract newcomers, as it was in the early days with betfair. If people feel like the exchange is a parasite (like I do about bf), they will hesitate before recommending it to friends etc. This is true with any product and service.
This is just my opinion, correct me if I am wrong.
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superfrank
- Posts: 2762
- Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:28 pm
defo agree with the sentiment of making any charges simple and fair.
Ethanol's suggestion about charging for API access (via a subscription) is a good one, but i fear it would discourage newbies (trainee traders are just as important to an exchange ecosystem as established ones).
how about varying commission depending on whether people use the API or not? e.g. people who use the API (mainly traders) pay a flat rate of 5%, with non-API punters paying a flat rate of 2%.
Ethanol's suggestion about charging for API access (via a subscription) is a good one, but i fear it would discourage newbies (trainee traders are just as important to an exchange ecosystem as established ones).
how about varying commission depending on whether people use the API or not? e.g. people who use the API (mainly traders) pay a flat rate of 5%, with non-API punters paying a flat rate of 2%.
Charging for things like the api that are free on Bf wouldn't work i don't think,
Winners would pay it no problems, losers would just choose to lose money on Betfair for free instead.
that's the problem in a nutshell,
Most customers have no real reason to use Betdaq whatsoever, but hopefully that is what will change in time.
Winners would pay it no problems, losers would just choose to lose money on Betfair for free instead.
that's the problem in a nutshell,
Most customers have no real reason to use Betdaq whatsoever, but hopefully that is what will change in time.
Maybe the fee could be waived if the account is not in profit for the month (although this negates my point about losing accounts paying the fee), or maybe it could be waived if the account has never been in profit. If so, this subscription charge would be more easily administered if it was applied in arrears.superfrank wrote: Ethanol's suggestion about charging for API access (via a subscription) is a good one, but i fear it would discourage newbies (trainee traders are just as important to an exchange ecosystem as established ones).
This might deter people from making simple bets via the API, and thus losing the opportunity of them becoming fully-fledged traders... It would also require either permanently flagging accounts as "2%" or "5%" accounts, and have that charge regardless of the medium they bet on, or, they pay 2% for market bets placed on the website, and 5% for market bets placed via the API. If a person uses both the website and API for a market, they pay the higher rate.superfrank wrote:how about varying commission depending on whether people use the API or not? e.g. people who use the API (mainly traders) pay a flat rate of 5%, with non-API punters paying a flat rate of 2%.
I do have another idea as a spin-off from your idea above: forget API access, and forget monthly subscription charges. Instead, charge 2% as the default commission for a market. If someone backs or lays multiple selections in a market, or both backs and lays the same selection, they then pay 5% commission for that market. That essentially classes bets on that market as being trader bets, thus incurring the higher rate.
There are some crazy sums of what is fair to pay being banded about.
The truth is most of us PC payers work on very small margins. 10% here and 20% there is ridiculous. The higher rate PC has stopped me betting almost completely now. I just cannot make it work. But that was their idea. They don't want my business on Betfair.
I would caution all of you how are saying you would accept higher commission and a PC of sorts. Betdaq are not good enough by a long way to attract those sort charges. As it is now Betdaq need to offer REDUCTIONS in commission. Certainly not higher rates.
The truth is most of us PC payers work on very small margins. 10% here and 20% there is ridiculous. The higher rate PC has stopped me betting almost completely now. I just cannot make it work. But that was their idea. They don't want my business on Betfair.
I would caution all of you how are saying you would accept higher commission and a PC of sorts. Betdaq are not good enough by a long way to attract those sort charges. As it is now Betdaq need to offer REDUCTIONS in commission. Certainly not higher rates.