Cant people in blacklisted countries use a VPS or server based in another country?
I read somewhere that despite the Asian books(Pinnacle and SBObet etc) being blacklisted in the uk, that people are still betting with them through servers based in other countries.
Though to be honest im not very up on all that and dont fully understand how it works.
Either way there are still plenty of traders in allowed countries that havent given trading on Betdaq a go yet, and i really dont see why not. You should at very least be trading both exchanges, if you have a twin monitor set up it takes less than a second to click a button on one screen, then click the same button on another.
Super Premium Charge 40% Or 60%?
As I hinted on the blog Betdaq was much easier to trade at Cheltenham than Betfair. I actually think that Betfair has got very weak on the lower quality stuff. So in absolute terms Betdaq is getting better, even if it stands still.
The country exist were prompted by Ladbrokes unfortunately and made their job just that bit harder. But I think for the sake of the long term game everybody should be doing there bit to help Betdaq.
The country exist were prompted by Ladbrokes unfortunately and made their job just that bit harder. But I think for the sake of the long term game everybody should be doing there bit to help Betdaq.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
As with many of these things there is not a straight forward answer to the situation.
I was forced out of BF due to the 60% PC. I know of several others who have either been forced out or have taken steps to hide their identity and continue under other peoples accounts. I don't think this is any secret that it goes on and has been discussed many times before on here including about BF setting up a department to hunt such people down. I suspect some on here think I do this, I don't. I just like the forum and the subject and have some stupid thought that one day the PC will be ditched
As Peter has said it was the middle income earners that were hardest hit imo. If you could make £1 million even at 60% you would still walk away with £400,000. Not many can earn that else where so they carried on.
If you made £50,000 a year you now walked away with £20,000 a year. That wasn't worth the risk, effort etc and most importantly opportunity cost for most.
Those that didn't make anything or very little still had their £250,000 allowance so it had no immediate impact.
You could try and implement strategies to reduce you PC but for many the fact the charge was based on retrospective results it was going to be very hard to achieve and there was the opportunity cost of all this extra time and effort.
I spoke with someone high up in BF and was told that the PC was handled very badly and that in retrospect they wouldn't introduce it if they had the time again.
They stated virtually no one pays the 60% and non of the biggest BF earners pay it and non have paid it for some time.
IMO it hit the wrong people.
If you trade mainly automated then I think trading BF and BD is do able but as a manual trader I did try trading both but couldn't manage it and got myself in a mess.
I have since I left BF been trading on BD for the bigger meetings and now do Saturdays if I am at home watching the racing. It has improved massively and the latest software from BA has helped a lot. There are things missing that I think would help more. It is a shame other software providers are not being as proactive as BA but I suspect the reason for that is the profit or lack of it to be more precise to be made from developing BD software.
Rather than look at the potential long term they are looking at the shorter term picture and focus on the software that pays the bill. The reason I suspect BA develop it more is because of Peter, he actually uses the software so it is in his interest to develop it and in turn hopefully get more people on BD.
One of BD's main problems at the moment is the lack of fish to feed the traders. A lot of the time it is traders v traders/bots. But I think that the problem comes from the fact that if you are a fish why would you leave BF? You go to the exchange with the most known name etc.
Another of the issues is the one that has been mentioned already, people have it in their heads that BD isn't suitable so don't give it a go or they give it a go for a day or a week and then extrapolate those results and so return to BF. As we are fragmented we are all working as individuals which makes these issues worse. We think about how much have we made today, this week etc and don't look at the long term picture.
People are to an extent killing themselves by allowing the status quo to continue as people don't want to stick their heads above the parapet and be the first.
Will it ever change sufficiently to when we have two viable exchanges? Time will tell...
I was forced out of BF due to the 60% PC. I know of several others who have either been forced out or have taken steps to hide their identity and continue under other peoples accounts. I don't think this is any secret that it goes on and has been discussed many times before on here including about BF setting up a department to hunt such people down. I suspect some on here think I do this, I don't. I just like the forum and the subject and have some stupid thought that one day the PC will be ditched
As Peter has said it was the middle income earners that were hardest hit imo. If you could make £1 million even at 60% you would still walk away with £400,000. Not many can earn that else where so they carried on.
If you made £50,000 a year you now walked away with £20,000 a year. That wasn't worth the risk, effort etc and most importantly opportunity cost for most.
Those that didn't make anything or very little still had their £250,000 allowance so it had no immediate impact.
You could try and implement strategies to reduce you PC but for many the fact the charge was based on retrospective results it was going to be very hard to achieve and there was the opportunity cost of all this extra time and effort.
I spoke with someone high up in BF and was told that the PC was handled very badly and that in retrospect they wouldn't introduce it if they had the time again.
They stated virtually no one pays the 60% and non of the biggest BF earners pay it and non have paid it for some time.
IMO it hit the wrong people.
If you trade mainly automated then I think trading BF and BD is do able but as a manual trader I did try trading both but couldn't manage it and got myself in a mess.
I have since I left BF been trading on BD for the bigger meetings and now do Saturdays if I am at home watching the racing. It has improved massively and the latest software from BA has helped a lot. There are things missing that I think would help more. It is a shame other software providers are not being as proactive as BA but I suspect the reason for that is the profit or lack of it to be more precise to be made from developing BD software.
Rather than look at the potential long term they are looking at the shorter term picture and focus on the software that pays the bill. The reason I suspect BA develop it more is because of Peter, he actually uses the software so it is in his interest to develop it and in turn hopefully get more people on BD.
One of BD's main problems at the moment is the lack of fish to feed the traders. A lot of the time it is traders v traders/bots. But I think that the problem comes from the fact that if you are a fish why would you leave BF? You go to the exchange with the most known name etc.
Another of the issues is the one that has been mentioned already, people have it in their heads that BD isn't suitable so don't give it a go or they give it a go for a day or a week and then extrapolate those results and so return to BF. As we are fragmented we are all working as individuals which makes these issues worse. We think about how much have we made today, this week etc and don't look at the long term picture.
People are to an extent killing themselves by allowing the status quo to continue as people don't want to stick their heads above the parapet and be the first.
Will it ever change sufficiently to when we have two viable exchanges? Time will tell...
Premium charge doesn't matter when it comes to the two exchanges, how many people pay pc? not many, are betfair worried about losing pc payers unlikly, it's like a ladder you have people paying pc charges and getting to a point where it's maybe not worth there time doing trading anymore but anyone leaving will be replaced by other up and coming traders.
Betfair are the leaders in exchanges, it's upto Betdaq to do something new and promote it, if it wasn't for Betangel i wouldn't even know what Betdaq was.
No traders execpt pc payers will move to Betdaq even if it is a little cheaper to do so.
Betfair are the leaders in exchanges, it's upto Betdaq to do something new and promote it, if it wasn't for Betangel i wouldn't even know what Betdaq was.
No traders execpt pc payers will move to Betdaq even if it is a little cheaper to do so.
It won't just be pc payers moving over, it will be traders who know that they have pc upcoming if they trade exclusively on betfair. Also I think I'm right in saying, though not entirely sure, that Betdaq is linked up to the whole on course market. So there are bookmakers looking to hedge, reduce liabilities and get runners into their book using Betdaq too.
Betfair gives the illusion of having more liquidity, though when you actually trade them there isn't much difference. Betfair can be frustrating as sometimes your money just seems to be sat in the queue without getting anything matched, despite there seeming to be plenty of action going on around the price. Before if you left a back up at say 6.4 on Betdaq, you'd have to wait for the price to go through 6.6 on betfair before you got matched. That isn't the case now, the orders fill just as quick, or sometimes quicker than on betfair.
So it's not just the lack of pc that is Betdaqs only appeal. It does actually seem to trade well at present, the new betangel upgrade has obviously been a massive help in that, though there does seem to be plenty of money actually getting matched too, im not sure if it is the on course link up, or just the exchange growing in general, though bets definitely get matched quicker than they were.
Betfair gives the illusion of having more liquidity, though when you actually trade them there isn't much difference. Betfair can be frustrating as sometimes your money just seems to be sat in the queue without getting anything matched, despite there seeming to be plenty of action going on around the price. Before if you left a back up at say 6.4 on Betdaq, you'd have to wait for the price to go through 6.6 on betfair before you got matched. That isn't the case now, the orders fill just as quick, or sometimes quicker than on betfair.
So it's not just the lack of pc that is Betdaqs only appeal. It does actually seem to trade well at present, the new betangel upgrade has obviously been a massive help in that, though there does seem to be plenty of money actually getting matched too, im not sure if it is the on course link up, or just the exchange growing in general, though bets definitely get matched quicker than they were.
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
I cant access BETDAQ but one of the problems I saw previous was a lack of coverage of events outside of horse racing. Football was poor in the fact that it covered only main leagues and fixtures. Has that improved?
It's nice to see this has generated some discussion. So it's either move to Betdaq or try and work out ways to increase generated commission %.Whopper wrote:how?Euler wrote:If you haven't reach that level there is a lot you can do to ensure you are on the lowest rate when you arrive there and pay less than 40%.
I've discovered you get 3% implied commission on losing bets but i still don't understand everything in my head well enough to do the math on that.
Won't losing bets just reduce your profits by about the same amount PC will anyway? Does this mean people have a free punt with their expected weekly PC amount the night before it's due? Also when you trade isn't one side always a losing bet, so does that generate implied commission?
I agree that Betdaq seems like a perfect counter for PC. I would love nothing better than to be able to trade on BD as well, but my country (Croatia) has also been blacklisted and I'm not exactly familiar with VPN etc to know if it really is a viable option.
The majority (lol) of traders who pay PC only pay 20% so they really should be able to get that back (or more) on BD simply by just mimicking their BF moves and sticking to their edge and strats, especially those who are unable to scale their profits on BF for whatever reason or those who managed to hit certain limits. My own profit would increase by at least 50% if I was able to trade there and that would be absolutely massive for me, I can't honestly believe that some people are not yet taking advantage of that.
If there ever was a time to try out Betdaq then this is it imho (no, I don't work for BD lol). The software is obviously in place and Cheltenham proved that BD was a far more profitable place compared to BF, it can only get better at this point.
One would think that Betfair slowly pulling out of all those countries over the last few years would would be a good opportunity for Betdaq (or someone else) to expand into those areas if possible, but nope, Betdaq instead decided that it would be a much better idea to blacklist even more countries.
The majority (lol) of traders who pay PC only pay 20% so they really should be able to get that back (or more) on BD simply by just mimicking their BF moves and sticking to their edge and strats, especially those who are unable to scale their profits on BF for whatever reason or those who managed to hit certain limits. My own profit would increase by at least 50% if I was able to trade there and that would be absolutely massive for me, I can't honestly believe that some people are not yet taking advantage of that.
If there ever was a time to try out Betdaq then this is it imho (no, I don't work for BD lol). The software is obviously in place and Cheltenham proved that BD was a far more profitable place compared to BF, it can only get better at this point.
One would think that Betfair slowly pulling out of all those countries over the last few years would would be a good opportunity for Betdaq (or someone else) to expand into those areas if possible, but nope, Betdaq instead decided that it would be a much better idea to blacklist even more countries.