Lay the field
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viper.trader
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:21 pm
I make money laying the field at 1.01 or 1.02, it really is the patience game but i make enough money to live of just, but of course there is an edge to this, there always is lol. Anyway laying horses can make money.
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JollyGreen
- Posts: 2048
- Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:06 am
If you go back a few years...actually it is probably nearer 5 years, laying the field started to become popular. Naturally there were people doing it before that but I'm talking more about it becoming mainstream.
It used to be much easier to set-up Bet Angel ready to lay the field, watch the race and if it seemed like a close finish you would submit your orders. You needed only two selections to be matched below 2.0 to lock in a profit.
Then came a dilemma. If you asked for a low price, the profit would be higher but the winning frequency would be lower. It then took some adjusting to find a happy medium i.e. a price where you could get two matched regularly.
It has now become much harder for this strategy to work with the advent of live on course traders, something that nobody has mentioned yet. There are teams of people at the courses who are taking advantage of the delay in the TV coverage. With a delay of up to 6.5 seconds at some courses these people are able to determine which horse is going to win. They will ignore the other runners. This makes it harder to get your orders filled and thus makes the strategy a hard one. Yes, it will still work but it requires a lot of hard work.
If you want to try it then here are a couple of pointers.
1. 5f and 6f sprints will offer close finishes
2. Uphill finishes can often produce close finishes
3. Soft ground can produce close finishes
4. Courses with poor camera angles in the home straight can give the illusion of a close finish and produce lower prices.
5. Courses which do not attract a mass of on course traders/gamblers will offer a better chance.
Today's racing offers a mixed bag, here are my thoughts on the courses
Thirsk - A low grade course which is pretty flat and tight turning. The only thing to help the lay all strategy is the camera angle which can be poor. They follow the horses to about 3f out and as the horses pass your view point and start to run away from you they switch to a camera adjacent the winning line so they are now running toward the viewer. This can make it tricky to determine which horse is actually in front. This camera then pans and follows the leader(s) crossing the line which can be tricky in a tight finish.
Yarmouth - Another low grade course and the only advantage is the poor camera angle. The horses again run toward the viewer for the last 2-3f and then they can switch to a camera nearer the winning line.
Folkestone - a strange course where the runners follow a fairly undulating run for home. They run slightly uphill and from your right towards you. It depends if the camera is on a high lift or lower with the latter giving a tricky camera angle. As the horses approach the 1/2 f marker they start to level in terms of view and then you are looking at them at a slight angle as they cross the line. In the 5f 6f and some 7f races they run straight, there is no bend and these can produce close finishes.
Listowel - They turn for home on a fairly tight bend and then it's a short run in to the finish. The camera angle isn't bad but they run towards you from left to right. The ground is heavy today and there is a slight incline as they round the home turn so this may produce tight finishes.
Good luck if you play, please pay commission cheques to......
It used to be much easier to set-up Bet Angel ready to lay the field, watch the race and if it seemed like a close finish you would submit your orders. You needed only two selections to be matched below 2.0 to lock in a profit.
Then came a dilemma. If you asked for a low price, the profit would be higher but the winning frequency would be lower. It then took some adjusting to find a happy medium i.e. a price where you could get two matched regularly.
It has now become much harder for this strategy to work with the advent of live on course traders, something that nobody has mentioned yet. There are teams of people at the courses who are taking advantage of the delay in the TV coverage. With a delay of up to 6.5 seconds at some courses these people are able to determine which horse is going to win. They will ignore the other runners. This makes it harder to get your orders filled and thus makes the strategy a hard one. Yes, it will still work but it requires a lot of hard work.
If you want to try it then here are a couple of pointers.
1. 5f and 6f sprints will offer close finishes
2. Uphill finishes can often produce close finishes
3. Soft ground can produce close finishes
4. Courses with poor camera angles in the home straight can give the illusion of a close finish and produce lower prices.
5. Courses which do not attract a mass of on course traders/gamblers will offer a better chance.
Today's racing offers a mixed bag, here are my thoughts on the courses
Thirsk - A low grade course which is pretty flat and tight turning. The only thing to help the lay all strategy is the camera angle which can be poor. They follow the horses to about 3f out and as the horses pass your view point and start to run away from you they switch to a camera adjacent the winning line so they are now running toward the viewer. This can make it tricky to determine which horse is actually in front. This camera then pans and follows the leader(s) crossing the line which can be tricky in a tight finish.
Yarmouth - Another low grade course and the only advantage is the poor camera angle. The horses again run toward the viewer for the last 2-3f and then they can switch to a camera nearer the winning line.
Folkestone - a strange course where the runners follow a fairly undulating run for home. They run slightly uphill and from your right towards you. It depends if the camera is on a high lift or lower with the latter giving a tricky camera angle. As the horses approach the 1/2 f marker they start to level in terms of view and then you are looking at them at a slight angle as they cross the line. In the 5f 6f and some 7f races they run straight, there is no bend and these can produce close finishes.
Listowel - They turn for home on a fairly tight bend and then it's a short run in to the finish. The camera angle isn't bad but they run towards you from left to right. The ground is heavy today and there is a slight incline as they round the home turn so this may produce tight finishes.
Good luck if you play, please pay commission cheques to......
Just to add to JG's comments; you can also automate this with the excel function by scanning col G so you dont have to sit there watching. If during the race two prices are below 2's then it is a close race (similarly, if three prices are below 3's then ditto). At this end of the scale the figures will tell you if its a close race.
It can be done, but bloody hard work if you are looking below 1.03 as there is always money in front of the queue. Why not look a little higher up the ladder?? Good luck
It can be done, but bloody hard work if you are looking below 1.03 as there is always money in front of the queue. Why not look a little higher up the ladder?? Good luck
I've made a rule for ltf triggering at first sec in play.I used lay 1.80 and I tried also lay all 3.35 , 2.80 , 2.30 , 1.80 , 1.50.I didn't understand "....by scanning col G so you dont have to sit there watching".What is col G?(sorry if i ask silly questions...I'm new..)
I am also very new but am learning steadily. Please could you advise me of where I will find the info on setting up the excel sheets etc for setting rules etc. I am not asking for some one to tell me as you all had to learn, but where will I find the info. Also do you think that trading is better done using excel? What are the advantageous and disadvantage's?
Hidmrsls wrote:I've made a rule for ltf triggering at first sec in play.I used lay 1.80 and I tried also lay all 3.35 , 2.80 , 2.30 , 1.80 , 1.50.I didn't understand "....by scanning col G so you dont have to sit there watching".What is col G?(sorry if i ask silly questions...I'm new..)
When you downloaded BA to your desktop, you would have also downloaded some excel templates that you can connect.
Within the excel spreadsheet, it constantly updates the odds, horse names; vol matched etc. Col G denotes the current back price on each horse.
If you connect it, I would suggest that you do so in practice mode.
Regards
Peter
Rogerrogerlisa wrote:I am also very new but am learning steadily. Please could you advise me of where I will find the info on setting up the excel sheets etc for setting rules etc. I am not asking for some one to tell me as you all had to learn, but where will I find the info. Also do you think that trading is better done using excel? What are the advantageous and disadvantage's?
The best place to look i on Betangel.tv there are lots of good examples and step by step guides.
Advantages: You can place lots of bets on auto depending upon the rules you set.
Disadvantages: An excel spreadsheet will do EXACTLY what you program it to do. If it is coded badly, you will lose money
Regards
Peter
Right chaps I nearly made a cock up.... On the place market I laid the field before the race at good prices. On realising that all were showing profit I tried to get out but for some reason I could not trade out. The race went in play and I still could not trade out. Why? As luck would have it I made a small profit. But I dont want to make the same mistake again. What did I do wrong or is there a glich sometimes?
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CaerMyrddin
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:47 am
When using bookmaking or dutching you shouldn't trade out manually, as you said yourself 'all were showing profit'. There's even an option not to show greening when bookmaking or dutching.
Not sure why you needed to get out if all were showing profit ?
but also remember the place market works differently than the win market.
not sure how it works in BA but on the betfair site it shows profit per horse rather than across the whole market like normal.
but also remember the place market works differently than the win market.
not sure how it works in BA but on the betfair site it shows profit per horse rather than across the whole market like normal.
Thanks for responses. The reason I wanted to trade out was for fear of things changing and going red like happens to me more than I would like.
Another one for you now.... I am in practice mode and favourite is at 5.6 I try and lay a bet at 9.0 expecting the market to shift up. For some reason BA is automatically giving me current price of 5.6. Why o why I havent set any automation as yet and for the life of me I cant see what I have clicked. Help its really annoying me and ruining my practice and theory testing??????????
Another one for you now.... I am in practice mode and favourite is at 5.6 I try and lay a bet at 9.0 expecting the market to shift up. For some reason BA is automatically giving me current price of 5.6. Why o why I havent set any automation as yet and for the life of me I cant see what I have clicked. Help its really annoying me and ruining my practice and theory testing??????????