lets move to Betdaq

[jimrobo]

whilst trading on betfair today I dabbled on betdaq with a tiny bank just to get a bit of a feel for the markets. I found them to be quite nice really. I had a horrendous day on betfair but 100% strike rate on betdaq!

OK If I was playing to tiny stakes on betfair I would have expected a higher strike rate but still I only had 50 pounds in my betdaq bank and over 8 races I made well over 10% of my bank all green just by messing around in between betfair trading.

Its actually quite a nice trading environment over on betdaq once you get stuck in.

If you are new I would genuinely say trading Betdaq is easier than betfair.

Here is my P&L but don;t forget I only used a 50 pounds bank NOT stake. My average stake was only 10 pounds and I did it in between my normal BF trading. I wasn't particularly concentrating on the market either! the 2 zeros were actually a profit but were less than 50p all green so I couldn't green up!

[Sunnyclimes]

Good blog post by Peter:

http://www.betangel.com/blog_wp/2011/07 ... liquidity/

I agree, great post.
Always look for the opportunity.

I don't pay PC but I am doing some trading on BD and, as time goes by my proficiency on that platform will increase and I will have an alternative if and when I become liable for PC on BF.

All the best
Sunnyclimes

[Euler]

We've done a week of monitoring the Betdaq markets. Lots of data to munch through, but the average volume on a race is around £280k at the moment.

[andyfuller]

Are you able with your data to convert the Betfair amounts to how Betdaq calculate their info or vice versa so as to give a true comparison?

[Euler]

Not just yet, but working on it. We are looking at fill rate and other stuff at the moment as well so we can see if there is a common bridge between the two.

[xitian]

Copying my other post here at Peter's suggestion. I'm not sure how to move a post if that's possible.

Andy, I think it would be tricky doing the conversion between the two methods. The trouble is that for Betdaq you'd need to know for each piece of volume matched what the price was. So one problem is having to track individual matches (rather than the total figure already provided), and the second problem is that I don't think they provide the matched price anyway. I could be wrong though. Maybe Peter and his team can come up with something.

I finally got round to fixing my data gathering system. Before I was just tracking changes in matched amounts (thought I was being clever and saving space) but then didn't have the total matched amounts. I'm logging matched amounts properly now, and will do so for Betdaq going forward too.

First fairly interesting statistic is that Betdaq still have a lot less matched in the last 10 mins pre-race in proportion to total matched in the whole day. Here are the stats for Monday 11th.

Betdaq: Up until 10 mins before: 2,141,069
Betdaq: In the last 10 mins pre-race: 3,793,391
(Note: This is using Betdaq's method of volume counting, ie. liability)
Proportion in last 10 mins: 64%

Betfair: Up until 10 mins before: 3,552,493
Betfair: In the last 10 mins pre-race: 14,139,818
(Note: This is using Betfair's method of volume counting, ie. stake)
Proportion in last 10 mins: 80%

This is volume matched in all races added up until scheduled start time.

I guess this means that there's still a lot less pre-race trading going on on Betdaq. It'll be interesting to see what happens come Monday 18th.

[LeTiss]

At Last!!.........Betdaq are showing some gumption

I've just had an email about having commission returned if McIlroy, Westwood, or Donald win The Open

OK, not earth shattering, but a major move in the right direction

[andyfuller]

Andy, I think it would be tricky doing the conversion between the two methods. The trouble is that for Betdaq you'd need to know for each piece of volume matched what the price was. So one problem is having to track individual matches (rather than the total figure already provided), and the second problem is that I don't think they provide the matched price anyway. I could be wrong though. Maybe Peter and his team can come up with something.

If you are able to collect the amounts matched on each selection and the odds at which they are matched on Betfair you can multiply one by the other and total them all up to get the Betfair amounts quoted in Betdaq format.

I don't know of anyway to convert Betdaq amounts in to Betfair for the reasons you put forward but the other way should be possible if what I say above can be done.

[sweetybt]

I keep getting the blacklist message today and yesterday.

They must have changed something

[Euler]

I'm ok, I am refreshing at 400ms and just doing fairly ordinary stuff. If I speed it up then I do get blacklisted.

[sweetybt]

Had it on 200ms, but that is my normal.

Will try 400ms

[Euler]

It seems to blacklist if you go 300ms or lower.

[sweetybt]

today perhaps, but I have had it sitting at 200 ms whenever I trade for the last few months without too many issues except when I remember I reported a similar issue a few weeks ago.

Not a show stopper for now but this is how it was at 200ms about 96 months ago.

[Euler]

It was changed, I think I posted on this or another thread about the change in rates.

[xitian]

If you are able to collect the amounts matched on each selection and the odds at which they are matched on Betfair you can multiply one by the other and total them all up to get the Betfair amounts quoted in Betdaq format.

I don't know of anyway to convert Betdaq amounts in to Betfair for the reasons you put forward but the other way should be possible if what I say above can be done.

So what I've done is take data in the last 10 mins pre-race of both Betfair and Betdaq (using scheduled times rather than actual start). As Andy suggested I did Betfair's matched amount, divided by 2, multiplied by matched odds to convert Betfair's numbers to
Betdaq equivalents. This is what I get for Monday 18th (which is the database I happen to have loaded):

Race, start time, Betfair matched vol, Betdaq matched vol

Code: Select all

Wind 11th Jul	18:10:00	1,214,915	169,982	14%
Wind 11th Jul	18:40:00	1,418,106	150,334	11%
Wind 11th Jul	19:10:00	1,217,623	134,779	11%
Wind 11th Jul	19:40:00	1,675,359	249,878	15%
Wind 11th Jul	20:10:00	1,535,107	161,924	11%
Wind 11th Jul	20:40:00	1,426,428	131,740	9%
Wolv 11th Jul	18:20:00	950,130	64,466	7%
Wolv 11th Jul	18:50:00	814,984	91,181	11%
Wolv 11th Jul	19:20:00	1,332,678	117,476	9%
Wolv 11th Jul	19:50:00	1,650,618	160,080	10%
Wolv 11th Jul	20:20:00	1,094,423	92,441	8%
Wolv 11th Jul	20:50:00	1,333,634	98,504	7%
Wolv 11th Jul	21:20:00	1,193,263	80,821	7%
FfosL 11th Jul	14:20:00	1,034,481	99,617	10%
FfosL 11th Jul	14:50:00	1,390,570	95,286	7%
FfosL 11th Jul	15:20:00	1,627,093	169,001	10%
FfosL 11th Jul	15:50:00	1,847,280	135,808	7%
FfosL 11th Jul	16:20:00	1,753,268	142,418	8%
FfosL 11th Jul	16:50:00	1,686,225	111,409	7%
FfosL 11th Jul	17:20:00	1,391,659	102,215	7%
Ayr 11th Jul	14:00:00	658,014	62,894	10%
Ayr 11th Jul	14:30:00	842,098	85,004	10%
Ayr 11th Jul	15:00:00	1,375,316	88,447	6%
Ayr 11th Jul	15:30:00	967,315	78,924	8%
Ayr 11th Jul	16:00:00	1,217,389	108,587	9%
Ayr 11th Jul	16:30:00	1,201,364	97,846	8%
Ayr 11th Jul	17:00:00	1,495,170	91,291	6%
Ayr 11th Jul	17:30:00	1,153,181	81,206	7%
Killar 11th Jul	18:00:00	467,493	61,960	13%
Killar 11th Jul	18:30:00	647,997	81,137	13%
Killar 11th Jul	19:00:00	628,959	77,315	12%
Killar 11th Jul	19:30:00	423,481	61,869	15%
Killar 11th Jul	20:00:00	561,313	63,077	11%
Killar 11th Jul	20:30:00	1,095,921	123,875	11%
Killar 11th Jul	21:00:00	492,038	70,599	14%

So assuming I haven't screwed up my database queries Betfair are matching about 10 times Betdaq volume in yesterday's races.