Ukraine Crisis

[greenmark]

UK is sending another 6,000 StarStreak II missiles to Ukraine.

I hope they leaving some spare.

Is that the March 23rd announcement or a new one?

Think is a new one post on YT yesterday.

Can't find it. 3 weeks ago, yes.
But anyway just watching BBC 10pm news and listening to pieces about it being the hottest day of the year and people's efforts to get away for a break.
Sometimes I think I'd like to go back to a time where information was dished out by slothful systems.
But you can't turn away, a lot of people are suffering a lot. And thanks to James46 I've been looking around outside Ukraine and it's a really ugly picture. Syria is still a mess, Yemen, Afghanistan. And that doesn't even scratch the surface of global poverty.
We 1 billion rich folk really need to be the leaders in sorting this crap out for the other 6.5 billion, rather than exchanging expensive munitions.
But hey. It's an old saying, in the face of economic difficulties - "What we need now is a good war".

[Derek27]

UK is sending another 6,000 StarStreak II missiles to Ukraine.

I hope they leaving some spare.

We've now got the new Star Trek I missiles.

[greenmark]

A BBC headline that defines how trivially the Ukraine disaster is being treated.
"Ukraine round-up".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61122074

[Archery1969]

So, it’s been confirmed by Ukraine commanders that British SAS soldiers have been training them all along on the ground inside Ukraine.

Times newspaper tomorrow. No doubt the MOD will deny it or not comment on special forces operations as is normal but I wonder what Putin will make of that.

Kinda makes sense as it was known there were 80 SAS and 140 Navy Seals on standby to get Zelensky and his family out whenever they needed. I guessed they were in country already to be able to do that. If your already there then why not help out anyway.

Putin will be spitting his dummy out come tomorrow.

[Derek27]

True. That boat has anti aircraft and anti missiles systems. Question is, why didn’t they work ?

Although, I was watching a program once on the history channel which said if you fire a missile at the back of a ship <= 5 metres above sea level then Radar, Sonar and the ships weapons system want always pick them up. It suggested it was something todo with the noise coming from the ships rudders and propellers which the ships defences have to ignore.

...I didn't realise all fires were started by the city of Kyiv by ....... magic?

It's not about the ship, it's about this https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ru ... 022-04-14/

Escalation continiues, these stupid "drive byes", western valkyries keep shouting "stuff it with weaponry!", 'merican military-industrial complex is swimming in money.
Great, just great.

If it's not about the ship, it's strange that they're suddenly concerned about the factory that builds the Neptune anti-ship cruise missiles that had nothing to do with the sinking of the Moskva.

Although Russia did not confirm that Ukrainian missiles had hit the ship, early on Friday it struck what it described as a factory in Kyiv that made and repaired anti-ship missiles, in apparent retaliation.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... e-ministry

[napshnap]

...I didn't realise all fires were started by the city of Kyiv by ....... magic?

It's not about the ship, it's about this https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ru ... 022-04-14/

Escalation continiues, these stupid "drive byes", western valkyries keep shouting "stuff it with weaponry!", 'merican military-industrial complex is swimming in money.
Great, just great.

If it's not about the ship, it's strange that they're suddenly concerned about the factory that builds the Neptune anti-ship cruise missiles that had nothing to do with the sinking of the Moskva.

Although Russia did not confirm that Ukrainian missiles had hit the ship, early on Friday it struck what it described as a factory in Kyiv that made and repaired anti-ship missiles, in apparent retaliation.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... e-ministry

I meant I don't think it will be an official stance - "revenge for the ship!" or something, Derek. Cause, you know, this ship is a military unit. Those random heli "drive by" attacks on russian civil structures are more fit for the reason of possible "revenge".

[greenmark]

This is just jaw-dropping.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61126391
Russia has banned Prime Minister Boris Johnson and other senior ministers from entering Russia over the UK's "hostile" stance on the war in Ukraine.
Hostile? Ok, I'm saying nothing more.

[Derek27]

This is just jaw-dropping.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61126391
Russia has banned Prime Minister Boris Johnson and other senior ministers from entering Russia over the UK's "hostile" stance on the war in Ukraine.
Hostile? Ok, I'm saying nothing more.

He should bar them for their Covid-19 indifference. I'd be fully behind Putin on that.

[firlandsfarm]

He should bar them for their Covid-19 indifference. I'd be fully behind Putin on that.

Derek, I know that to knock Boris and his Government comes second for you only after trading but according to The Lancet (and the WHO) the UK's 'excess mortality' (the only true way to assess the total affect of COVID-19) comes out at 126.8 excess deaths than expected deaths per 100,000 of population. This compares favourably with the whole of Western Europe at 140.0 on average and is better than Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Portugal and Italy. The only main Western Europe countries that suffered less excess deaths were Austria, Germany and France. Central European and Eastern European countries suffered much greater than us on average. The specific figures are ...

Austria 107·5
Germany 120·5
France 124·2
UK 126·8
Netherlands 140·0
Western Europe 140·0
Belgium 146·6
Spain 186·7
Portugal 202·2
Italy 227·4
Central Europe 315·7
Eastern Europe 345·2

When the statistics are published by a reputable organisation and not the headline writers of our sensation seeking media the picture changes somewhat. I'm very happy with our position, yes maybe it could have been better with the application of hindsight. Mistakes were made ... made by all countries. The mistakes were different but the outcomes/results are surprisingly close for the main northern Western European countries. Yes it's easy to say 'why did we do this and that and not do as XYZ did' but then their citizens are asking the same question in respect of their 'this and that' and putting us in the XYZ role!

To be better than average for an unknown threat, never encountered before in modern times, is a successful outcome and a job done as well as could be expected.

The full report can be found here and the table comparing countries/regions here

[greenmark]

He should bar them for their Covid-19 indifference. I'd be fully behind Putin on that.

Derek, I know that to knock Boris and his Government comes second for you only after trading but according to The Lancet (and the WHO) the UK's 'excess mortality' (the only true way to assess the total affect of COVID-19) comes out at 126.8 excess deaths than expected deaths per 100,000 of population. This compares favourably with the whole of Western Europe at 140.0 on average and is better than Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Portugal and Italy. The only main Western Europe countries that suffered less excess deaths were Austria, Germany and France. Central European and Eastern European countries suffered much greater than us on average. The specific figures are ...

Austria 107·5
Germany 120·5
France 124·2
UK 126·8
Netherlands 140·0
Western Europe 140·0
Belgium 146·6
Spain 186·7
Portugal 202·2
Italy 227·4
Central Europe 315·7
Eastern Europe 345·2

When the statistics are published by a reputable organisation and not the headline writers of our sensation seeking media the picture changes somewhat. I'm very happy with our position, yes maybe it could have been better with the application of hindsight. Mistakes were made ... made by all countries. The mistakes were different but the outcomes/results are surprisingly close for the main northern Western European countries. Yes it's easy to say 'why did we do this and that and not do as XYZ did' but then their citizens are asking the same question in respect of their 'this and that' and putting us in the XYZ role!

To be better than average for an unknown threat, never encountered before in modern times, is a successful outcome and a job done as well as could be expected.

The full report can be found here and the table comparing countries/regions here

I agree. The UK was fleet of foot with vaccines. I disagree that we locked down as quickly as advisers were saying we should.
But hey, what's a few thousand lives?
Anyhow this is the Ukraine crisis thread. Not Covid. Unless you visualise a displaced population suddenly compressed into confined areas. Then Covid does enter the scenario.

[Derek27]

He should bar them for their Covid-19 indifference. I'd be fully behind Putin on that.

Derek, I know that to knock Boris and his Government comes second for you only after trading but according to The Lancet (and the WHO) the UK's 'excess mortality' (the only true way to assess the total affect of COVID-19) comes out at 126.8 excess deaths than expected deaths per 100,000 of population. This compares favourably with the whole of Western Europe at 140.0 on average and is better than Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Portugal and Italy. The only main Western Europe countries that suffered less excess deaths were Austria, Germany and France. Central European and Eastern European countries suffered much greater than us on average. The specific figures are ...

Austria 107·5
Germany 120·5
France 124·2
UK 126·8
Netherlands 140·0
Western Europe 140·0
Belgium 146·6
Spain 186·7
Portugal 202·2
Italy 227·4
Central Europe 315·7
Eastern Europe 345·2

When the statistics are published by a reputable organisation and not the headline writers of our sensation seeking media the picture changes somewhat. I'm very happy with our position, yes maybe it could have been better with the application of hindsight. Mistakes were made ... made by all countries. The mistakes were different but the outcomes/results are surprisingly close for the main northern Western European countries. Yes it's easy to say 'why did we do this and that and not do as XYZ did' but then their citizens are asking the same question in respect of their 'this and that' and putting us in the XYZ role!

To be better than average for an unknown threat, never encountered before in modern times, is a successful outcome and a job done as well as could be expected.

The full report can be found here and the table comparing countries/regions here

I wasn't talking about the UK's indifference, I was talking about BJ's indifference - partying while the rest of the UK was in lockdown. I doubt Putin would want him in the country never mind at the end of a long table.

[firlandsfarm]

I wasn't talking about the UK's indifference, I was talking about BJ's indifference - partying while the rest of the UK was in lockdown. I doubt Putin would want him in the country never mind at the end of a long table.

OK, we are taking the thread off topic but why is it that if Boris has a glass of wine with others it's a party but if Captain Hindsight has a beer in a similar situation it doesn't warrant an investigation?

And you do knock Boris at every opportunity!!

[firlandsfarm]

Anyhow this is the Ukraine crisis thread. Not Covid. Unless you visualise a displaced population suddenly compressed into confined areas. Then Covid does enter the scenario.

I agree greenmark and have acknowledged this in my recent response to Derek but if someone makes a comment you want to respond to that is off topic do you ignore the comment and keep shtum (which could be interpreted as passive agreement), open a new thread to give your response (which would seem a little strange) or respond as I did and have now done again with this response!!

[Derek27]

I wasn't talking about the UK's indifference, I was talking about BJ's indifference - partying while the rest of the UK was in lockdown. I doubt Putin would want him in the country never mind at the end of a long table.

OK, we are taking the thread off topic but why is it that if Boris has a glass of wine with others it's a party but if Captain Hindsight has a beer in a similar situation it doesn't warrant an investigation?

And you do knock Boris at every opportunity!!

That was just a joke (and another pop at BJ), I wasn't expecting a discussion. The difference between those two scenarios isn't what they were drinking but the number of people there, the amount (suitcase fulls) of alcohol, invitations to bring your own booze, etc.

[Archery1969]

You should have seen the parties on the rooftop terrace at PWC. Amazed nobody got fined.