BITCOIN as an alternative to regular currency

[superfrank]

I thought the whole point of bitcoins was governments had no control?

unfortunately govts can do pretty much what they like - they'd ban cheese if the banks asked them to. BTC was popular in China because the people don't want the state currency which is being printed in vast quantities.

[Zenyatta]

I thought the whole point of bitcoins was governments had no control?

unfortunately govts can do pretty much what they like - they'd ban cheese if the banks asked them to. BTC was popular in China because the people don't want the state currency which is being printed in vast quantities.

No govt. attempt to ban bitcoins will succeed. Bitcoins are withstanding this onslaught. The hackers Bitcoin revolution will succeed. Big govt. and central banks are doomed.

[superfrank]

Big govt. and central banks are doomed.

if only, if only that were true. private banks rule the world - govt and central banks are just their puppets.

[Zenyatta]

Big govt. and central banks are doomed.

if only, if only that were true. private banks rule the world - govt and central banks are just their puppets.

Private banks will also be 'dealt to' (run over) if Bitcoin becomes really popular.

Downward price trend hit a strong resistance point at $US 500 - Bitcoin price rebounding strongly again now.

Addendum: Check the news, hackers hit the Chinese central bank and now Bitcoin is going back up and up The geeks are in charge now.

[andyfuller]

I thought I had been going mad but I looked back on this thread and I was correct in my thinking Zenyatta has done one of the all time greatest turnarounds

Some quotes from Zenyatta:

To begin with:

Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme for nerds. The rate of creation of new bitcoins (calling 'mining') is designed to mimic the old gold currency - that is, it encourages hoarding, which results in destructive busts (and deflation). Like all ponzi schemes, the few who got in early will reap great profits, and everyone else will be relieved of their money when the price crashes.
...
I may not be the smartest trader on the block here, but even for me, the words that spring to mind here are; 'craze', 'bubble', 'ponzi' , 'price spike'. I mean if you'd got in really early (circa 2009) you'd have made a fortune, but the 'trend' has surely gone way too far and its due for a major correction by now?
...
Big red flag: everyone wants to get on the bandwagon and everyone is yelling what a great opportunity this is! Surely that's precisely the time you should be selling, not buying?

Then later:

The history of Bitcoin shows that the people that kept calling 'bubble' got it wrong over and over and over again. How many times do they have to keep being wrong before they concede? I think this train isn't stopping. If it turns out to be as successful as the optimists say, the price of a bitcoin could top out at $US 100 000 or more! So there is still potentially a huge amount of money to be made by you and I.

...

On this occasion I'm willing to bet against you. My wager is that within 5 years, the price of Bitcoin will have stabilized, exceeding $US 100 000, with Bitcoin widely used as a currency and starting to replace central banks/credit cards/paypal, on a par with Gold, western union and widely used as a store of value. I think it is the revolution that advocates say it is.

[superfrank]

I thought I had been going mad but I looked back on this thread and I was correct in my thinking Zenyatta has done one of the all time greatest turnarounds

I suspect he did a bit research, found it quite fascinating (as I did), and changed his mind (am still not sure) - I'm not holding out much hope for Euler though!!!

[andyfuller]

I'm not holding out much hope for Euler though!!!

More likely that BF will scrap the PC than Euler join Zenyatta

[Euler]

Stumbled across this interview which is very lengthy but quite entertaining: -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_onv9-fHoEc

[Zenyatta]

If Bitcoin is a bubble, why isn't the price going to zero as predicted? There have been numerous crashes, but the price isn't going to zero - instead the price keeps rebounding, and the 'lows' keep getting higher.

Surely, if the price was going to zero, you would think it would have done so here, where the Chinese govt. was doing its best to stamp out Bitcoin and all the experts were predicting a price crash to zero. Instead, we again see the price rebounding strongly, and in fact its up 26% again.

[Zenyatta]

This graph shows the 2-year spot price of Bitcoins, tracked on the Mt.Gox exchange. The graph is logarithmic and shows a smooth continuous increase in long-term price, with the latest 'crash' revealed to be nothing but a minor correction. It does not match the graph of a bubble at all.

[superfrank]

Bitcoin vs Gold - The Future of Money - Peter Schiff Debates Stefan Molyneux - YouTube
http://youtu.be/UX1HdnEqVEA

Schiff doesn't like bitcoin very much.

Imho what we really need is a digital currency backed by gold that has all the advantages of digital currencies (zero transaction costs, independence from banks and central banks and politicians) but has an intrinsic value that is relatively stable. That would be great for individuals currently screwed by the fiat system, but also great for business as they could operate without all costs of payment processing, foreign exchange costs etc.

[Euler]

Zenyatta, it's like deja vu for me all over again. I tried to stop people losing their shirts during the dot com boom but nobody listens when people are chasing in.

In 2004 lots of people were all screaming about derivatives and the potential for catastrophic problems but all shouts were ignored. Then booooom in comes 2008.

The problem now is that I am resigned to the fact that no matter how right you are about something, people only listen if they want to.

[kelpie]

This graph shows the 2-year spot price of Bitcoins, tracked on the Mt.Gox exchange. The graph is logarithmic and shows a smooth continuous increase in long-term price, with the latest 'crash' revealed to be nothing but a minor correction. It does not match the graph of a bubble at all.

Reminds me of another chart. Here's the FTSE 2005-2007... 2008 just around the corner!!

[superfrank]

In 2004 lots of people were all screaming about derivatives and the potential for catastrophic problems but all shouts were ignored. Then booooom in comes 2008.

The problem now is that I am resigned to the fact that no matter how right you are about something, people only listen if they want to.

Schiff talks about the exact same thing in the vid above. 2008 happened because of the biggest credit bubble in history - but all that has happened since then is that it has been reflated with massive bailouts and funny money (denial of what really caused the bust).

Look at the UK housing market - govt scheme after govt scheme to prop it up and force people to take on ever greater increasing debt for a place to live. Average prices 10 x average wages (historical norm 2.5 to 3 x). People are happy to call bitcoin a bubble (although it's tiny in terms of capitalisation) but happily overlook the really big bubbles because so many more people have a vested interest in then not popping.

[Zenyatta]

Zenyatta, it's like deja vu for me all over again. I tried to stop people losing their shirts during the dot com boom but nobody listens when people are chasing in.

In 2004 lots of people were all screaming about derivatives and the potential for catastrophic problems but all shouts were ignored. Then booooom in comes 2008.

The problem now is that I am resigned to the fact that no matter how right you are about something, people only listen if they want to.

Thanks for your views, I have taken them on-board and I'm definitely having second thoughts about getting involved now. Bitcoin is a definitely a mania, which is hard to avoid getting caught up in, particularly for folks like me with a fascination with information technology.