To be honest (and I'm running the risk of pissing Peter Webb off here), I think his laying strategy results are in danger of muddying the waters for some.
We keep preaching that trading is not gambling, and we keep telling people with a gamblers instinct that those moments of rashness and excitement will ultimately break the bank, yet Peter himself is grabbing some people's attention for the wrong reasons with these results
I'd hate to think some novice traders are thinking "fuck to all this hard work, I can make more money just laying 1 horse than trading all afternoon"
Motivation from other Trader's blogs and P&Ls.
Well if you pick the right horse, you canLeTiss 4pm wrote: I'd hate to think some novice traders are thinking "fuck to all this hard work, I can make more money just laying 1 horse than trading all afternoon"
Of course gambling is no easier than trading, both gambling and trading are very difficult. But it's not really gambling per se that causes people's problems, I think the problem comes about when people get confused and try to mix gambling with trading.-
steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
Without knowing the reason for either getting involved in the trade then its hard to define if it's gambling or trading.
A horse may be 10s just beforw the off and shoot straight into 5s at the off for no apparent reason. For zen this could be a great opportunity for a gamble, for peter this could be a great opportunity for a lay trade?
This happens a lot both on the backside and the layside at the off, so I guess overtime there could be some value found in the odds just after the off?
A horse may be 10s just beforw the off and shoot straight into 5s at the off for no apparent reason. For zen this could be a great opportunity for a gamble, for peter this could be a great opportunity for a lay trade?
This happens a lot both on the backside and the layside at the off, so I guess overtime there could be some value found in the odds just after the off?
+1LeTiss 4pm wrote:To be honest (and I'm running the risk of pissing Peter Webb off here), I think his laying strategy results are in danger of muddying the waters for some.
I know Peter posts the laying results to inspire people, but I fear they will inspire people to recklessness and gambling, not hard work and dedication...
Jeff
Trading is much more stress free as you get a nice smooth upward equity curve and not the wild swings you will get when laying. But look at the difference in response the laying got.
I do find it curious. Extol the virtues of trading, which has transformed the betting landscape, do some exceptional clever stuff and you are often greeted with odd looks, but lay a few horses and everybody goes ape.
I do find it curious. Extol the virtues of trading, which has transformed the betting landscape, do some exceptional clever stuff and you are often greeted with odd looks, but lay a few horses and everybody goes ape.
I didn't really aim to do that. I just wanted to show what is possible if you've got the balls. So many duff tipping services and scammers out there, I've often picked up some massive results so wondered what would happen if I posted one or two. Would certainly put some of these guys to shame.Ferru123 wrote:I know Peter posts the laying results to inspire people
Whether it's trading or laying I've never posted my best results, because I don't think it's fair to do that. But also I think it could fall into the trap you mention.
I know Peter posts the laying results to inspire people, but I fear they will inspire people to recklessness and gambling, not hard work and dedication...
Jeff[/quote]
What's all this with the Protestant work ethic? I was interested in odds and probability, and yes gambling, from an early age, with the sole view of getting money for nothing. The most profitable system I ever had was blindingly simple to operate - just back with the bookies when their price was higher than the Exchange. I believe someone else on this forum did something similar. After several good seasons, my accounts were either closed or had impossible restrictions placed on them.
Peter's laying-only strategy has opened up whole new avenues for me to explore - and yes I am putting in some hard work, but the eventual aim is to have a fire and forget automated system.
People on this forum may be naive when it comes to trading, but I'd be surprised if the majority of them didn't know the risks associated with gambling. My biggest losses have been when I've attempted to trade. Each to his own - but I don't think anybody on this forum has to take on the burden of people acting inappropriately on advice freely given.
Jeff[/quote]
What's all this with the Protestant work ethic? I was interested in odds and probability, and yes gambling, from an early age, with the sole view of getting money for nothing. The most profitable system I ever had was blindingly simple to operate - just back with the bookies when their price was higher than the Exchange. I believe someone else on this forum did something similar. After several good seasons, my accounts were either closed or had impossible restrictions placed on them.
Peter's laying-only strategy has opened up whole new avenues for me to explore - and yes I am putting in some hard work, but the eventual aim is to have a fire and forget automated system.
People on this forum may be naive when it comes to trading, but I'd be surprised if the majority of them didn't know the risks associated with gambling. My biggest losses have been when I've attempted to trade. Each to his own - but I don't think anybody on this forum has to take on the burden of people acting inappropriately on advice freely given.
LeTiss 4pm wrote:The only reason you're weeping mate is because the £34k has gone!
I'm sure Peter would blow his too if he was also hellbent on shagging his way around Europe!
There's a guy that topped me, when he won the Euro-millions and jetted off around the world. (I posted on Matt Myles in the Chill-out section a while back)
Guess what. He went totally nuts and after 8 months of parties he's blown a huge sum on alcohol and chicks (he's down 72K) and now he's returned to the UK he can't even get a mortgage with the bank:
...
Speaking of his £72,000 bar bill, Mr Myles said: 'The money has been mostly spent on the p****'. I mean, why wouldn't you?'
'We got through £80,000 in less than eight months. I would say about 90 per cent of that was spent going on the razz.
'We basically tried to do a night on, a night off the sauce, but most of the time it was night on, night on, night on.
...
Speaking of the Big Apple, Mr Myles said: 'The only way to describe New York is London on crack.
'Everyone is going a million miles an hour.
'It is expensive in New York. We spent £4,500 just to get in and sit at a table in one place in New York.
...
'We had to come home for the sake of our livers,' he said.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tgage.html
Not quite the same story Zenyatta - he's got enough left to buy a house outright.
Nonetheless, he's lived the dream.
I'm 44 and I could name a handful of people I went to school and college with who are dead!
Whilst, I might take the mickey from time to time due to your obsession at naming your £34k win in every thread, you'll always have your memories mate, and when we're all on our deathbed - nobody will be able to take that away from you
Nonetheless, he's lived the dream.
I'm 44 and I could name a handful of people I went to school and college with who are dead!
Whilst, I might take the mickey from time to time due to your obsession at naming your £34k win in every thread, you'll always have your memories mate, and when we're all on our deathbed - nobody will be able to take that away from you
I did, and so did someone else here.Wyndon wrote:
The most profitable system I ever had was blindingly simple to operate - just back with the bookies when their price was higher than the Exchange. I believe someone else on this forum did something similar.
Good luck with that (genuinely), but there is a world of difference between betting with the bookies when Betfair's odds tell you that the bookie is out, and beating the hyper-efficient Betfair markets.Wyndon wrote: Peter's laying-only strategy has opened up whole new avenues for me to explore - and yes I am putting in some hard work, but the eventual aim is to have a fire and forget automated system.
I suspect that Peter's laying strategy exploits the fact that he pays almost no commission, and is primarily about reducing his premium charge. I'd love to know the long-term ROI for his system...
Jeff
Interesting. Do you place your lays at the off, or do you try to beat BSP?
Jeff
Jeff
Euler wrote:The laying makes money even after commission Jeff. Basically is just exploiting the value created by loads of people trading stuff that they have no perception of value of.
I have seen a pattern in Aussie racing that has been occurring ever since I started a year ago. I have watched and monitored it for most of that time and I have ONLY just started collecting data on it. Over the past few days I have not noticed anything outside the ordinary with the system and I am very impressed with the results. So Peter has definitely encouraged me to explore other avenues that I could have only taken if had found the right one first...and that is trading.
Having said that, I can see where everyone is coming from in saying that it is misleading to post those P/L's. But I would say it would only be misleading if it wasn't true, and if you are not aware of the risks, then you shouldn't even be trading, let alone gambling.
Having said that, I can see where everyone is coming from in saying that it is misleading to post those P/L's. But I would say it would only be misleading if it wasn't true, and if you are not aware of the risks, then you shouldn't even be trading, let alone gambling.
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
unless mugsgame had posted it of course! 
Talk about kissing cheeks!
Talk about kissing cheeks!I've never doubted Mugs' ability to trade, but I doubt he can come up with a result like this. I've already said that Mugs' personality doesn't sit well with me, but that's just me, I'm sure a lot of people like the guy. But I thought we were over this 