Is BetAngel for me? I'm not sure

[marko236]

You would be very very lucky if you still had an account after doubling that 10k deposit, most will close you within a few days if you have just a few winning bets totaling a few hundred.

Holy crapola. They really don't want to play fair. I didn't realise they'd potentially jump on it that quickly. I wish I'd taken that 20 horse accumulator and won it last week. The stake was £1 and the payout £5.5 billion

Those betfair charges (and the premium charges) look like they'd maybe wipe out my entire strategy. I guess I'm going to stick with ladbrokes for now, until they shut me down if I reach a couple of hundred quid profit, then at least I'll have given the strategy a good run. Then, who knows, if it truly feels good, move to Vegas (although all gambling is taxed there, damn).

You will get way better odds on an exchange and that will more than offset any charges

[Dallas]

If your system is selecting horse for staright punts either win or place have a look here for the ones that won and see what sort of SP you would of gotten from the exchange and what difference that would of made to your profits.

On those reuslts you would of paid around £12 in commision to BF and about £6 if using BD

http://form.timeform.betfair.com/daypage?date=20160417

[marko236]

Forgot to add, pc charges will not stop a winning stratagy from making money it just means you'l win less money, you can try betting more to cover the extra charges

[LeTiss]

Really. So if I funded a bookies account (like Ladbrokes, paddypower, bet365, etc) with let's say 10,000 and then over weeks and months got to 20, 30, 50, or maybe even 100,000 they'd actually want to shut me down. I'd have thought somebody would have sued them by now for trying that.

Wow, you have lots to learn!!

This forum is littered with people who have had their accounts closed with bookmakers. I have had 14 accounts with various bookmakers......I have just 2 left, they have all shut me down. Bookmakers have changed greatly in recent years, and not for the better - anybody slightly unprofitable are sent into the rubbish pile

[convoysur-2]

My method is using the BA Excel VBA, you can access external databases using SQL for making automatic selections. My preference is Proform where you can build systems based on past results then get your code to test for eligibility as BA steps from race to race, then place bets automatically.

Other information can be lifted from web sites, for example I auto transfer Timeform star ratings from At The Races site into the main database and use those in some systems.

No doubt there are plenty of Football based sites/databases online but I only do horses so can't really comment on those.

Good luck, but be warned, its a long hard journey.

Hi Zapata
You have been quiet long time,thought you were on long holiday again.ive been at this a long time and i never knew about this
(you can access external databases using SQL for making automatic selections. )could you please elaberate on this and educate me a little,a wee video would be nice if you are in a good mood.i used proform before as you know it can be overwhelming ,there is just soo soo much info in it,but its fantastic,i had often thought about using some of that info ,but the thought of doing it all manually ,(selecting races)etc is daunting,but the thought of being able to submit the criteria to a data bank and then place bets on the qualifiers excites me,tell me more please,
Marc

[Zapata]

That's a massive task Marc.

Can you do VBA?

I really don't think I would know where to start showing you from square one.

[convoysur-2]

zapata
thanks for your reply.
now that i know its available ill start poking around.
Marc

[d4006]

Forgot to add, pc charges will not stop a winning strategy from making money it just means you'll win less money, you can try betting more to cover the extra charges

That is a good point. Worst case is that if I achieved the highest level of charges, then I'll have 20% of my profits reduced. It would work.

I guess I'll continue with my £200-funded Ladbrokes account until I prove it doesn't work, or it does and they close me down.

[Zapata]

zapata
thanks for your reply.
now that i know its available ill start poking around.
Marc

Marc
There's a big re-write of Proform going on due for release in the summer. My stuff will need to be redone after, cleaned up and simplified.

It is currently v24 with v1 still in there with options and buttons I can't even remember what they are for.
I will let you know when the more usable version is done and you can test it if you like.
There is far too much setting up and messing around at the moment.

If you can't wait to get started:
The Proform database is called PRODB and the two system tables are SavedSystems & SavedSystems2. The information in those tables gets compared against this horse/race data and history.

[convoysur-2]

zapata
thanks for your reply.
now that i know its available ill start poking around.
Marc

Marc
There's a big re-write of Proform going on due for release in the summer. My stuff will need to be redone after, cleaned up and simplified.

It is currently v24 with v1 still in there with options and buttons I can't even remember what they are for.
I will let you know when the more usable version is done and you can test it if you like.
There is far too much setting up and messing around at the moment.

If you can't wait to get started:
The Proform database is called PRODB and the two system tables are SavedSystems & SavedSystems2. The information in those tables gets compared against this horse/race data and history.

good man,,thanks for that ,ill start there.
Marc

[d4006]

Just wondering what you guys think of my results so far? I freely admit I might be in a honeymoon phase and it could all go tits up, but so far so good, and I am still in a longer term testing phase.

It's fun to imagine if I were to add a ",000" to all of these amounts (funding it with £100k instead of 100 quid). I'll take 25 grand a week than you very much.



By the way, I see my Ladbrokes account offers me access to the exchange. If I were to place my bets there, instead of "with ladbrokes", would they be less inclined to kick me out for winning too much? After all, they didn't (necessarily) lay the bets I won on. I'm not averse to creating a Betfair account, but it's easier not doing it if I already have another account capable of reaching the exchange.

[spreadbetting]

Considering you seem to have spent some time laying this golden egg you seem very apathetic using it. Opening a Betfair account is very simple a lot simpler than coming up with a winning strategy and you won't hit the higher PC charges til winning £250K.

Ladbrokes exchange is Betdaq and they won't ban winners as like you say they're an exchange so even though they may be active in the markets it's generally for hedging only. Plus they have no PC charge and a lower base rate of commission, only drawback is the liability on offer is generally a lot less than on offer on Betfair so you may eventually ht a brick wall and have to take lower odds or take longer to get filled.

All this procrastination must be costing you a fortune I'd start placing bets on Betdaq asap if I were you.

[d4006]

Considering you seem to have spent some time laying this golden egg you seem very apathetic using it. Opening a Betfair account is very simple a lot simpler than coming up with a winning strategy and you won't hit the higher PC charges til winning £250K.

Yeah, I'm playing it cautious for now. I did back-test it many years ago but this is the first real test and I really want to see a long term trend. I'll be happy if I reach 31 betting days in a row with a constant up trend, then I'll have to start taking it seriously.

Ladbrokes exchange is Betdaq and they won't ban winners as like you say they're an exchange so even though they may be active in the markets it's generally for hedging only. Plus they have no PC charge and a lower base rate of commission, only drawback is the liability on offer is generally a lot less than on offer on Betfair so you may eventually ht a brick wall and have to take lower odds or take longer to get filled.

OK, here again Betfair sounds better. Right, I know what I'll need to do when the time comes

All this procrastination must be costing you a fortune I'd start placing bets on Betdaq asap if I were you.

It's not like I've been living on the breadline the past couple of decades knowing this was definitely a winner. I've been a contract software consultant since 1990 earning ridiculous money, so I never really knew that this might be an even more profitable prospect. Now though, I see that even with a fairly conservative investment of £100k I can make thousands a week from it, so I have to give it some respect. I am a little concerned that if I start placing £1k bets I might find that harder to get filled so quickly. True? Or is there way more market action than I'm estimating and a 1k bet would be filled in just a couple of seconds.

Btw, is there partial fill also? Like in the stock market? For example, I want to place a £100 bet and there are five people wanting to lay £20.

[spreadbetting]

Depends what odds the horses you're abacking are, for favs etc £1K won't be a problem but at 33/1 you're gonna have problems unless it's a big meeting.

As for partial fills you never know if you're matched against 1 person or 100 people, the money is lumped together from all the layers unders the odds they'd laid. You'd just see the amount available not who's laying it.

Thing to do is just start betting and build up slowly, any problems with stakes etc will soon show up and you then look for workarounds rather than looking for problems that may never occur.

[d4006]

Depends what odds the horses you're abacking are, for favs etc £1K won't be a problem but at 33/1 you're gonna have problems unless it's a big meeting.

As for partial fills you never know if you're matched against 1 person or 100 people, the money is lumped together from all the layers unders the odds they'd laid. You'd just see the amount available not who's laying it.

Great ! All the answers I wanted to hear Thanks.