To Hedge or not to Hedge?

The sport of kings.
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SeaHorseRacing
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ajdal wrote:How?... it has been pointed out numerous times on other threads that the market is reasonably/very efficient... so how does redistributing the return so the rate varies lead to the potential for trading disaster and be almost anti-trading?
When I a trade I know roughly that I have a 70% strike rate as an example. So including the variables I know roughly the way my wins and loses are going to flow if I hedge my position.

If you dont hedge your position you are now dealing with another set of variables in which is what the strike rate of the selection wining is.

My purpose of trading is to turn over as much as possible. The more you put through the more you make if you are profitable. where as with not hedging your strike rate will decrease. So infact although the occasianal stop at a win seems good your actually selling yourself from not taking action on opportunitys from stopping early. Imo the added variables of not hedging allows for not maximise profits and pushing on losses.

I think to be systematic is they key to profiting. Hedging then not hedging its almost random.
if you can do it day in day out then if you have an edge long term you will have a profit but speaking from a trading perspective most traders who are successfull make a payday everyweek. Whereas the variables of not hedging is gambling.

you can profit from gambling but it so much harder and i believe it can lead to disaters as if your not systematic with your strategy how can you be systematic with your money or risk management? When your not maximising your long term gains.

A big win from not hedging is infact stopping you using your strategy on more opportunitys and the variables can lead to different emotions
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SeaHorseRacing
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To simplify everything I have said.

Hedging your position allows you to learn and get to grips with taking a winner or a loser. You will roughly now how many you will have.

Not hedging your position can lead to frustration in which is not what I believe trading is about. Sitting there hoping it wins risk free is still gambling. It is playing with your emotions.
ajdal
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SeaHorseRacing wrote:To simplify everything I have said.

Hedging your position allows you to learn and get to grips with taking a winner or a loser. You will roughly now how many you will have.

Not hedging your position can lead to frustration in which is not what I believe trading is about. Sitting there hoping it wins risk free is still gambling. It is playing with your emotions.
And how would you describe the process of placing your initial trade?
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SeaHorseRacing
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ajdal wrote:
SeaHorseRacing wrote:To simplify everything I have said.

Hedging your position allows you to learn and get to grips with taking a winner or a loser. You will roughly now how many you will have.

Not hedging your position can lead to frustration in which is not what I believe trading is about. Sitting there hoping it wins risk free is still gambling. It is playing with your emotions.
And how would you describe the process of placing your initial trade?
When i open my trade. I dont hope of anything I know i will lose less than I gain overall. My aim is to stay emotionally detached.
Letting it run risk free is now completely out of my control. Someday I may trade really well but I have 0 because i risked it free from not hedging. That would frustrate me. I dont want to be emotional I just want to use my edge and churn as much money through as possible.
ajdal
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SeaHorseRacing wrote:
ajdal wrote:
SeaHorseRacing wrote:To simplify everything I have said.

Hedging your position allows you to learn and get to grips with taking a winner or a loser. You will roughly now how many you will have.

Not hedging your position can lead to frustration in which is not what I believe trading is about. Sitting there hoping it wins risk free is still gambling. It is playing with your emotions.
And how would you describe the process of placing your initial trade?
When i open my trade. I dont hope of anything I know i will lose less than I gain overall. My aim is to stay emotionally detached.
Letting it run risk free is now completely out of my control. Someday I may trade really well but I have 0 because i risked it free from not hedging. That would frustrate me. I dont want to be emotional I just want to use my edge and churn as much money through as possible.
And that approach is your choice.... and I can fully appreciate why you take that approach... I choose to take a different approach... I also know I will lose less than I gain overall.... yours suits you, mine suits me...

And that is me over and out on this discussion... enjoyed it.... cheers mate :)
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ruthlessimon
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SeaHorseRacing wrote: in your case stop for the day.
mate. if i got £300 in the first race; then im done for the day. i love trading, but i trade for freedom - & that's why i love it, cause it's not a normal 9 to 5. at the end of the day, it's purely a race to 250k, after that bf looses its shine - knowing corcoran is getting 50% of my winnings.
Last edited by ruthlessimon on Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SeaHorseRacing
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And how would you describe the process of placing your initial trade?[/quote]

When i open my trade. I dont hope of anything I know i will lose less than I gain overall. My aim is to stay emotionally detached.
Letting it run risk free is now completely out of my control. Someday I may trade really well but I have 0 because i risked it free from not hedging. That would frustrate me. I dont want to be emotional I just want to use my edge and churn as much money through as possible.[/quote]

And that approach is your choice.... and I can fully appreciate why you take that approach... I choose to take a different approach... yours suits you, mine suits me...

And that is me over and out on this discussion... enjoyed it.... cheers mate :)[/quote]

Good debate. Id love to be able to trade your way would be fun at times.
I have to take a five minute break sometimes if I have made a brilliant result on a trade and only got part of my stake matched.
not hedging would be horrendous for me.
Cheers.
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SeaHorseRacing
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ruthlessimon wrote:
SeaHorseRacing wrote: in your case stop for the day.
mate. if i got £300 in the first race; then im done for the day. i love trading, but i trade for freedom - & that's why i love it, cause it's not a normal 9 to 5. at the end of the day, it's purely a race to 250k, after that bf looses its shine - knowing corcoran is getting 50% of my winnings.
The wins will even out over time so lets say you didnt hedge on the favourite. Favs win roughly 30% of the time.
If you just traded say 5 races a day (1 hour) you would make more money a year than from hedging 5 a day then stopping on a winner. It all the same
It will all even out. You wont make more money. Your make more money hedging and just trading a few more markets. You still have your freedom and you wont have added emotionally conflicts
Nathane30
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is there a formula used to calculate hedging?

i'm guessing it's not simply profit/loss divided by number of runners?
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Dallas
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Nathane30 wrote:is there a formula used to calculate hedging?

i'm guessing it's not simply profit/loss divided by number of runners?
Yes its; Stake multipled by (entry odds / current odds)
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Dallas
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Using level stakes with market efficiency both are going to show a simlar profit after several months.
I remember a thread which i think was by Spreadbetting or maybe LinusP (sorry if it was someone else i and i not named you) a few months ago which gave a brilliant alternative example
If you where compounding your stake (increasing them as your bank incresed) the consisitancey of greening rather than holding out for the fewer but bigger greens means you could grow your bank at a faster rate so in this case after several months of compounding a greening bank would be higher.

I would do both where possible, rather than setting one or the other in stone. If i have just made a good trade on the fav who is a known front runner and is now lining up at the front of a NH race and its price has been shortening to reflect this in final secs I would leave the risk free trade run and look to green up for a higher amount in-running.
Had i traded on a mid priced runner who is looking like going off mid/rear of the pack and will only be produced late on then im not going to risk waiting for that to happen and will green up before the off.
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jimibt
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Dallas wrote: If i have just made a good trade on the fav who is a known front runner and is now lining up at the front of a NH race and its price has been shortening to reflect this in final secs I would leave the risk free trade run and look to green up for a higher amount in-running.
Had i traded on a mid priced runner who is looking like going off mid/rear of the pack and will only be produced late on then im not going to risk waiting for that to happen and will green up before the off.
Dallas- i think this sums it up pretty well. definitely can't set it in stone, but if you have the right conditions in place, then why not. it's all about squeezing the most out of a very competitive landscape.
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