Ban on credit card deposits about to be announced

[Naffman]

I've seen people getting a couple of lottery tickets and I'm thinking 'oh that's probably only a couple of quid' and it ends up being £20!

Absolutely crazy

this post re-affirmed yet again how impatient i am regards lottery in general.

in our local shop you can have 2 peeps queuing in front of you to pay for their stuff. it all looks good until you hear the immortal words, "I'll have two number 5's a number 7 and 2 number 8's" (I made those ticket types up - i don't know what the hell they are). They then get the tickets and slowly open them all up at the counter. 5 minutes later, they've discovered that they've won £10... Yup, rinse and repeat!! Sigh....

[stueytrader]

First to say, totally agree about scratch-card issue - shouldn't be sold at the counter with normal shopping IMO (maybe separate till labelled 'degenerate gambling till' or something....)

On the Credit cards, totally agree with the ban for gambling. Yes, there are other ways to fund gambling using credit but they all take time and organisation - not the impulsive 'I'll just load a grand off my credit card' into my account then blow it in 10 minutes type.

Credit cards that immediately deposit for betting should never have been allowed IMO.

[Nervous]

You'll still be able to gamble using your credit card through third party sites such as PayPal were you can fund the account with a credit card and then use PayPal to fund gambling.

There are also a plethora of other third party sites such as Neteller, etc

Or even just go to an ATM and draw cash with your Credit Card.

An answer would be to BAN ALL games of pure CHANCE from the online marketplace. That would effectively get rid of games of chance because they, wether you go into a betting shop or from your computer have an online component.

If you want to play games of chance go to a Casino.

[Derek27]

I'd imagine people will just borrow from other sources.

Yes. One example would be draw cash from their credit card (knowing the extra cost of doing so), put it into their normal bank account, send the money across to their gambling account using their normal debit card that's registered on the site.

The assumption that they can control everyone who wants to gamble, is the wrong approach. The KYC rules are the best way, as it at least gives the option of a dialogue, and still gives the person the overall decision to proceed. (also covers most money laundering practises)

I'm guessing the idea is that people who blow all their money can't instantly refund their account and would have an enforced cooling-off period before depositing.

[Derek27]

I've seen people getting a couple of lottery tickets and I'm thinking 'oh that's probably only a couple of quid' and it ends up being £20!

Absolutely crazy

this post re-affirmed yet again how impatient i am regards lottery in general.

in our local shop you can have 2 peeps queuing in front of you to pay for their stuff. it all looks good until you hear the immortal words, "I'll have two number 5's a number 7 and 2 number 8's" (I made those ticket types up - i don't know what the hell they are). They then get the tickets and slowly open them all up at the counter. 5 minutes later, they've discovered that they've won £10... Yup, rinse and repeat!! Sigh....

It infuriates me when I have to queue up behind lottery ticket buyers to get my cigarettes. I once asked for "twenty" assuming the girl behind the counter knows what cigarettes I buy and she gave me a lottery ticket out of the 20 slot!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgfB6M1CRr4

[stueytrader]

You'll still be able to gamble using your credit card through third party sites such as PayPal were you can fund the account with a credit card and then use PayPal to fund gambling.

There are also a plethora of other third party sites such as Neteller, etc

Or even just go to an ATM and draw cash with your Credit Card.

An answer would be to BAN ALL games of pure CHANCE from the online marketplace. That would effectively get rid of games of chance because they, wether you go into a betting shop or from your computer have an online component.

If you want to play games of chance go to a Casino.

Personally, totally agree with what you say about chance games too. I also realise there are other methods to use credit - they would all take some extra steps though, which is something. A few extra steps would reduce 'impulse' credit card funding of gambling.

'Impulse' and 'credit' are horrible words put together in any gambling activity context.

Like you say, there are a plethora of funding methods - they should probably ban many of those too, for just this credit issue.

[Derek27]

You'll still be able to gamble using your credit card through third party sites such as PayPal were you can fund the account with a credit card and then use PayPal to fund gambling.

There are also a plethora of other third party sites such as Neteller, etc

I forgot PayPal allows you to attach a credit card for automatic payments - that explains why PayPal is being targeted as well. I'd much rather they just stopped PP from allowing credit card to gambling operator transactions as I find PayPal convenient. Presumably, there will be a block on e-wallets like Neteller as well.

[Ethanol]

I think the credit card ban is a good idea, and I don't think many will get hold of money elsewhere such as balance transfers, etc.

I know a problem gambler, and he wouldn't faff around transferring money about when he was down on his luck. He would just chase with available funds. And it's not through lack of intelligence; gambling is an impulsive activity, and requiring a specific routine to go through in order to get hold of money requires a plan.

If, as the Guardian have reported, e-wallets such as PayPal are included, that'll be quite frustrating. PayPal is a good way of quickly moving money around, whereas debit cards can take several days. PayPal already tag transactions as "gambling" so that credit card companies can attach cash-withdrawal fees to them, so I can't see why PayPal can't enforce funds to come from a debit card, or the PayPal balance itself.

Also, I think this GamStop system should be used for another scenario: all people living on governmental income support should be registered onto it. It just isn't right that this money given to them with the intention of being used for essential bills and food is blown away in a bout of desperation.

[ilovepizza82]

"We have been clear to all ...social media platforms and banks, that they must be socially responsible and use the power of technology and data to help consumers manage their spending and protect them from harm."

1) Why should my bank tell me what i should be spending my money on ?
2) Are they going to ban cc from buying video games, alcohol, drugs and cigs next as well ? Coz as far I know according to scientific research those are the most addictive things in the world !

[jimibt]

"We have been clear to all ...social media platforms and banks, that they must be socially responsible and use the power of technology and data to help consumers manage their spending and protect them from harm."

1) Why should my bank tell me what i should be spending my money on ?
2) Are they going to ban cc from buying video games, alcohol, drugs and pornogaphy next as well ? Coz as far I know according to scientific research those are the most addictive things in the world !

in fairness (well - you know what i mean), this is the gambling industry itself that is imposing this restriction, not the banks. It would need the other relevant industries to apply similar embargos...

[PDC]

I forgot PayPal allows you to attach a credit card for automatic payments - that explains why PayPal is being targeted as well. I'd much rather they just stopped PP from allowing credit card to gambling operator transactions as I find PayPal convenient. Presumably, there will be a block on e-wallets like Neteller as well.

Maybe I have missed it but where does it say PayPal is being targeted as well, all I could see in the press release was about Credit Cards?

[Ethanol]

The consultation that led to the commission’s decision included e-wallets, indicating that payment services such as PayPal will probably be included in the ban. The Guardian revealed last year that such providers had allowed problem gamblers to circumvent banking limits and spend up to £150,000 a day.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ting-sites

[ShaunWhite]

It's interesting that the funding options that might be banned are also the ones that can afford a degree of anonymity. We're all being forced to use only accounts regulated by the UK banking authority. The logical next step is Nanny linking the tax system directly to our accounts. And no doubt soon Nanny will be 'helping' the 1000s of cottage industries who are putting billions quietly through Paypal, which the taxman would so love to know about. It's a bit Orwellian granted but where there's a will there's a way, and as things stand there's both. This and things like Bitcoin are removing people's freedom to keep their own money their own business under the guise of making our lives easier and better.

[PDC]

The consultation that led to the commission’s decision included e-wallets, indicating that payment services such as PayPal will probably be included in the ban. The Guardian revealed last year that such providers had allowed problem gamblers to circumvent banking limits and spend up to £150,000 a day.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ting-sites

Thanks I read the article and thought, the article is the usual speculation and doesn't do the detail so I went to the Gambling Commision site and read the actual Consultation response and there is no blanket ban on e-wallets as such. Here is the detail with regards to e-wallets:

"E-wallets

3.61 We would remind operators of our position as outlined in the consultation. The condition will impose a responsibility on operators to only accept payments via e-wallets in circumstances where the wallet provider can assure the operator that they can prevent payment for gambling by credit card.

Final wording of new licence condition 6.1.2
Addition of new licence condition 6.1.2

All non-remote general betting, pool betting and betting intermediary licences, and all remote licences (including ancillary remote betting and ancillary remote lottery licences) except gaming machine technical, gambling software and host licences.

1 Licensees must not accept payment for gambling by credit card. This includes payments to licensee made by credit card through a money service business."

So if they, bookmakers and e-wallet providers, are able to find a way to ensure that deposits made from e-wallets to bookmakers are not made by Credit Card there will be no ban of e-wallets. If they can't do this then e-wallets will not be allowed as a form of deposit. There is nothing about e-wallets not being allowed as a form of withdrawal from what I have read though the operator may not allow this of course.

So it is a matter of waiting to see if operators and e-wallet providers can come up with a solution to the issue. If they can then nothing other than making deposits by credit cards will change.

The full response is available here:

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/fo ... bling.aspx

Finally, as no one on Betfair ever losses there shouldn't be much of a problem if deposits are stopped from e-wallets once you have your initial bank deposited

[stueytrader]

"We have been clear to all ...social media platforms and banks, that they must be socially responsible and use the power of technology and data to help consumers manage their spending and protect them from harm."

1) Why should my bank tell me what i should be spending my money on ?
2) Are they going to ban cc from buying video games, alcohol, drugs and cigs next as well ? Coz as far I know according to scientific research those are the most addictive things in the world !

As mentioned above, it's the gambling industry first off being regulated, not the banking system itself (since when would they have any morals indeed!)

But I think it is still worth considering comparison made in your point.

Though this argument often goes on about comparison with other forms of addiction and social problems, there is one significant difference with gambling. It is the only one that is directly linked to financial ruin and debt problems.
Other forms may be partly linked but not directly. Debt and financial problems are a modern day curse, and don't just affect the person who has the debt either - far reaching effects on all society. Debt is a scurge, and credit is the cause.