Anybody like to discuss this?

[Euler]

Trying starting or stopping at two minutes to avoid the craziness around that period.

[MobiusGrey]

Just to add my two penneth and this is just an opinion so please I hope this doesn't offend anyone. Some people might just not be cut out for pre race trading/scalping. I tried for years, and I genuinely mean years, anything from bots to watching endless YouTube videos of people like Peter nipping around the ladder like it's nothing and picking up a few hundred quid.

Everyone process information differently and has different emotions to winning/losing. I could not find an edge or value pre race at all. What I did find amongst all of that though was that the likes of the pre race traders create some incredible value elsewhere. These 'cold traders' who know nothing about a horse/form/going/jockey form/trainer form will jump on a steamer or drifter and back/lay it to the hilt. This creates some great opportunities for dutching if you know what you're looking for.

Just a suggestion mind, I'm not saying to give up totally if you're set on it, I'm just talking from personal experience.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[xtrader16]

Trying starting or stopping at two minutes to avoid the craziness around that period.

The market can indeed be split into two sections before +01:55 and after. Volatility starts then spikes after +01:55 when (I believe) the major bots have gathered all the information they need to make a decision which way to act. I think they back and lay there own bets then lay and back the other way, all very complicated but not if you know how.

Then by +01:30 it or they have quietened down a little before manual traders get involved to pick up the pieces. Just my opinion. Working more on volumes today.

[decomez6]

Trying starting or stopping at two minutes to avoid the craziness around that period.

a race to the true efficient market value .( BSP)

[Euler]

Just to add my two penneth and this is just an opinion so please I hope this doesn't offend anyone. Some people might just not be cut out for pre race trading/scalping. I tried for years, and I genuinely mean years, anything from bots to watching endless YouTube videos of people like Peter nipping around the ladder like it's nothing and picking up a few hundred quid.

Everyone process information differently and has different emotions to winning/losing. I could not find an edge or value pre race at all. What I did find amongst all of that though was that the likes of the pre race traders create some incredible value elsewhere. These 'cold traders' who know nothing about a horse/form/going/jockey form/trainer form will jump on a steamer or drifter and back/lay it to the hilt. This creates some great opportunities for dutching if you know what you're looking for.

Just a suggestion mind, I'm not saying to give up totally if you're set on it, I'm just talking from personal experience.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Everybody's tolerance to risk is very different and their reaction to situations significantly shapes outcomes.

I've always been careful to highlight I'm well practiced and it's been a very long journey for me. I've had to unlearn many things on the way. So I would agree, in general, with the comments.

[Kai]

A couple random things to add, since it's the first decent trading discussion in what feels like ages

lagging technical indicators are mainly used to confirm a trend not necessarily to predict one

Ye I guess people generally watch too many lagging indicators so can easily miss the key live price action, on most faster markets I actively hover the mouse cursor in anticipation of stuff to be able to react accordingly, if I had both my hands resting on the back of my head just looking at lagging indicators I would always be a couple of steps behind the market and everyone, but ofc depends whether you're catching bounces and reversals or not.

Don't think it matters much when the action starts, roughly the same move can take 3 days to mature on one market while on another it's all compressed inside 3 minutes, while on a micro market like doggos it can be all done within 30 seconds etc, the way I see it I feel it's important to distinguish between the trending phases and the ranging phases, and between retracements and full blown reversals, for me those should practically be basics for most traders to then decide how and when to get involved, where to position themselves and how to manage those positions, learn those things if unclear. To simplify it to the extreme you can just try to distinguish between backing and laying phases.

I will say that knowing exactly when a surge of activity is going to happen is supposed to be a big advantage in my eyes, there aren't too many preoff markets out there with this characteristic, so if not planning on using this it's then maybe best to avoid it.

But I'd say try ditching most indicators to focus on the live price action, build up experience and then use your experience to roughly gauge how far moves can realistically go based off current activity as well to position and adjust and manage accordingly, being flexible is a bonus ofc. Maybe sounds complex when you put it like that but try to simplify everything to the extreme, you can't really endlessly average out your positions and judgement calls have to eventually be made at some point. That being said if I was starting from scratch on this market alone I would probably just start from the value betting angle and wouldn't be looking to trade.

[rik]

Getting fed up with this so Im putting everything I know out there for discussion. You can help me, I can help you or you can just help youself. Getting offered HGV jobs for £47k per year and Im sitting here messing about with markets that do so strange things.

maybe forget all this moving averages, important information is on the ladder?
Probably your reading too much into every little price move, 90% just random

[wearthefoxhat]

The only other thing I can add is that the candlesticks available in BA, serve a purpose only so far. The Pre-Market decision making in a fast moving 5 minute to 2 minute to off-time, may indeed be too late for some trades/traders. Putting the same decision making into Forex charts may suit others better with Heiken-Ashi candlesticks.

[xtrader16]

Getting fed up with this so Im putting everything I know out there for discussion. You can help me, I can help you or you can just help youself. Getting offered HGV jobs for £47k per year and Im sitting here messing about with markets that do so strange things.

maybe forget all this moving averages, important information is on the ladder?
Probably your reading too much into every little price move, 90% just random

It really isnt. In fact, it is just the opposite. Nothing is random in the ladders it conforms to a certain pathway that most people cannot see.

[decomez6]

'cold traders' who know nothing about a horse/form/going/jockey form/trainer form will jump on a steamer or drifter and back/lay it to the hilt

bet you bite that cherry before the traders specialise in `ghost busters` .wait patiently for your form/jokey/trainer money to arrive then shadow your trades every time you show your hand.

-a trend is a friend until the end -

This creates some great opportunities for dutching if you know what you're looking for

great to read form and create your own odds , cold traders flame up crossmatching madness, BSP starts to look very attractive , if only you specialise in finding the needle in the hey stuck !

[Kai]

Getting fed up with this so Im putting everything I know out there for discussion. You can help me, I can help you or you can just help youself. Getting offered HGV jobs for £47k per year and Im sitting here messing about with markets that do so strange things.

maybe forget all this moving averages, important information is on the ladder?
Probably your reading too much into every little price move, 90% just random

+1 , listen to rik, just constructive criticism

The ranging part especially is pretty random (second part of that graph), with how many times it goes up and down and to what extent, you sort of have to average out your entries if you want to catch any of it.

"When in doubt, zoom out" - meaning if you get lost in the market noise try and look at the bigger picture to find your bearings again

[decomez6]

A couple random things to add, since it's the first decent trading discussion in what feels like ages

lagging technical indicators are mainly used to confirm a trend not necessarily to predict one

Ye I guess people generally watch too many lagging indicators so can easily miss the key live price action, on most faster markets I actively hover the mouse cursor in anticipation of stuff to be able to react accordingly, if I had both my hands resting on the back of my head just looking at lagging indicators I would always be a couple of steps behind the market and everyone, but ofc depends whether you're catching bounces and reversals or not.

Don't think it matters much when the action starts, roughly the same move can take 3 days to mature on one market while on another it's all compressed inside 3 minutes, while on a micro market like doggos it can be all done within 30 seconds etc, the way I see it I feel it's important to distinguish between the trending phases and the ranging phases, and between retracements and full blown reversals, for me those should practically be basics for most traders to then decide how and when to get involved, where to position themselves and how to manage those positions, learn those things if unclear. To simplify it to the extreme you can just try to distinguish between backing and laying phases.

I will say that knowing exactly when a surge of activity is going to happen is supposed to be a big advantage in my eyes, there aren't too many preoff markets out there with this characteristic, so if not planning on using this it's then maybe best to avoid it.

But I'd say try ditching most indicators to focus on the live price action, build up experience and then use your experience to roughly gauge how far moves can realistically go based off current activity as well to position and adjust and manage accordingly, being flexible is a bonus ofc. Maybe sounds complex when you put it like that but try to simplify everything to the extreme, you can't really endlessly average out your positions and judgement calls have to eventually be made at some point. That being said if I was starting from scratch on this market alone I would probably just start from the value betting angle and wouldn't be looking to trade.

+1
cant agree more !

execution is a binary decision.
- the quicker the better,,,and its all about the time frames and how close you are to final count down.

[xtrader16]

What would peope say the do in terms of number of ticks per trade before closing. I know it might depend on the timing of the entry point and secondly, how does that tick expectation relate to your stop loss?

I would generally look at making 3-4 ticks on anything over 3.0 but 5-10 ticks under 3.0. The issue I have is with the stop loss, under 3.0 it can move pretty quick and if you are on the wrong side of it and using stakes like £300 can quickly lead to a £25+ loss. Are you suppose to wait and see if it reverses are comes back to your entry point, or more?

It is next to impossible to have a win:lose ratio (3:1) like you can in financial markets because it is so volitile you will gets stopped out right before your position goes through the roof. Share or not share up to you.

[Dallas]

Setting a fixed number of ticks as your stop will often cost you money in the long run

When I open a trade say a lay on the Fav, im looking for several supporting reasons why to do that
ie, X, Y and Z may lead me to believe its going to drift

Even if it shortens 10 ticks I wouldn't be looking to exit unless something about X, Y and Z has fundamentally changed
However sometimes it might shorten just 3 ticks and but I'm looking to exit, not because of how many ticks its moved but because something in the X, Y, Z I was looking has now changed or I can see signs its beginning to change

[Kai]

What Dallas is saying the only real stoploss you should use is when you're wrong about your trade.

Fixed stoplosses are probably the thing the markets abuse the most and they actively try to trigger them, this apparently goes all the way back to financials and psychology as well.

Take whatever market offers, people usually make judgement calls on their entries and then average out their exits slowly and take whatever market offers in the end. If you don't average out any exits you can get higher payouts but you can also butcher many decent positions as well which is harder to take mentally, you could say it roughly evens out and in a nutshell you get to choose your own variance. Hopefully that makes sense