Betfair Sports Director: An Interview

[Euler]

The whole "PC trial didn't make any difference thing" I think is obvious; You're only measuring the impact of the trial on PC payers who are still trading.

Surely any decline in liquidity driven by PC will be liquidity lost from players who have shut up shop and gone home because it's no longer worth their while?

You are spot on. I've pointed this out to Betfair in the past. They are looking to influence the wrong thing really and have missed the point somewhat.

I don't think they will ever change the PC. I met the guy who created it, understand how it was implemented, why and how many people it affected.

The only thing they should have changed, but didn't, is the lifetime limit. So that smacks of gouging margins, but the damage that has done is huge. You can add in the impact the higher rate had on people it wasn't particularly aimed at. But I think Betfair considered that collateral damage.

Betfair told me they were not considering an annual limit when I've raised PC with them.

[Derek27]

Their exchange simulator is for the more savvy customers.

[Euler]

Interesting video.
Both came across as honest, which I liked.
Interesting comment by Richard about Betfair loss making "seeding", instant profit for those early market makers/bots!.

You probably need to reappraise your people reading skills

I have raised all these points with Betfair many times over many years and have offered to help them get their views across, but was declined. I've always argued all the points we discuss here on a regular basis. But ultimately, over many years it's made no difference. So I'll be honest, representing or acting like this was new or there was no platform for these views rang very hollow for me.

The most revealing part of the video for me was the mortgage bit. If you are even moderately successful, you should never need a mortgage. You can get to £250k at little cost, so unless you are buying half an island. No mortgage is required. That was a interesting moment.

[goat68]

Interesting video.
Both came across as honest, which I liked.
Interesting comment by Richard about Betfair loss making "seeding", instant profit for those early market makers/bots!.

You probably need to reappraise your people reading skills

I have raised all these points with Betfair many times over many years and have offered to help them get their views across, but was declined. I've always argued all the points we discuss here on a regular basis. But ultimately, over many years it's made no difference. So I'll be honest, representing or acting like this was new or there was no platform for these views rang very hollow for me.

The most revealing part of the video for me was the mortgage bit. If you are even moderately successful, you should never need a mortgage. You can get to £250k at little cost, so unless you are buying half an island. No mortgage is required. That was a interesting moment.

I was surprised by the mortgage bit, but for different reasons, it's plain common sense as an insurance business you're not going to lend someone money whose only income is from betting....
But Peter, you live in Hampshire too, seen what you can buy with £250k recently?! 2bed if you're lucky

[ShaunWhite]

it's plain common sense as an insurance business you're not going to lend someone money whose only income is from betting....

Who better than an insurance company to understand what betting means! It's not plain common sense it's a basic lack of understanding.

Can someone explain why on earth they think Betfair would be interviewed by Peter? Business and social media is about reciprocity and ass kissing, Peter is their most high profile and consistantly outspoken critic, it would be like agreeing to be interviewed by a pissed-off ex-wife. Zero benefit. If you ran a business and had any sort of message to get across, would you choose a disgruntled customer with his own agenda to do it? Nope.

[andy28]

250K would buy half of NZ

[goat68]

250K would buy half of NZ

[goat68]

it's plain common sense as an insurance business you're not going to lend someone money whose only income is from betting....

Who better than an insurance company to understand what betting means! It's not plain common sense it's a basic lack of understanding.

Can someone explain why on earth they think Betfair would be interviewed by Peter? Business and social media is about reciprocity and ass kissing, Peter is their most high profile and consistantly outspoken critic, it would be like agreeing to be interviewed by a pissed-off ex-wife. Zero benefit. If you ran a business and had any sort of message to get across, would you choose a disgruntled customer with his own agenda to do it? Nope.

Good point about social media, probably explains why my view was they were being honest, as they were both helping each other as it were!
I do however think a lot of what Richard said made sense from a Betfair perspective, he's trying to look at PC from various different perspectives, some of which we will not know about, others make sense eg.benefiting all not just the top few% in a change. The trials he described sounded positive attempts, and admitting 40% must be fixed.

[wearthefoxhat]

I think all the "thorny" questions were asked and answered to some degree.

I don't think any of us will be privy to all the real juicy stuff that happens behind the scenes.

I sense that the software needs an overhaul of sorts. Betfair should allow a group of software coders/writers a chance to pull it apart and re-programme certain elements within the software. It could well make a difference to their bottom line and bring it inline with all the modern day rule changes in the big markets. (ie; VAR)

I liked the fact that the American Football markets will be condensed into a tradeable handicap line. There were/are too many markets that cross over and spread the liquidity too thinly.

One area of the PC that could be looked at, is to try and replicate the current tax PAYE code in some way. At the end of the "tax year" - April 6th, everything is reset to zero. Of course Betfair keep the PAYE income as gambling is tax free.

PAYE.png

[napshnap]

The whole "PC trial didn't make any difference thing" I think is obvious; You're only measuring the impact of the trial on PC payers who are still trading.

Surely any decline in liquidity driven by PC will be liquidity lost from players who have shut up shop and gone home because it's no longer worth their while?

Exactly, that's so obvious, that's why I'm saying that premium charges is suspiciously something more for them. It's Holy Cow for them. It's not even about business anymore, it's more like statement: "No step back!"

[napshnap]

Their exchange simulator is for the more savvy customers.

I like this the exchange simulator idea, it's good and simple and should attract some new customers if advertised properly.

[Trader Pat]

Can someone explain why on earth they think Betfair would be interviewed by Peter? Business and social media is about reciprocity and ass kissing, Peter is their most high profile and consistantly outspoken critic, it would be like agreeing to be interviewed by a pissed-off ex-wife. Zero benefit. If you ran a business and had any sort of message to get across, would you choose a disgruntled customer with his own agenda to do it? Nope.

Caan has actually been very critical of Betfair on Twitter for months now, imo taking it too far on a few occasions. During one of the outages he kept asking some poor girl @BetfairCS questions she just couldn't answer. He seemed to get caught up in the moment which didn't come across well at all. I asked him why he didn't ask his account manager the same questions as they would be in a better position to answer them... he didn't take that well That's why I'm surprised Betfair granted him an interview, but maybe they knew the questions coming their way wouldn't be that tough.

He seems to be branching out into other endeavours. Bashing Betfair feed nicely into his bashing bookies narrative which in turn brings customers to his matched betting service. If has been said earlier in the thread he's losing £300 on individual pre off trades then that's not going to help sales of his video packs. Maybe he's carving out a new career as a broadcaster?!

[Realrocknrolla]

but maybe they knew the questions coming their way wouldn't be that tough.

A million percent he had the questions before a camera was even rolling!

[Derek27]

One area of the PC that could be looked at, is to try and replicate the current tax PAYE code in some way. At the end of the "tax year" - April 6th, everything is reset to zero. Of course Betfair keep the PAYE income as gambling is tax free.


PAYE.png

I don't think that would make much difference:

Personal income: Up to £500, Basic 20% rate: £500 up to £1500, 40% rate: above £1500, etc.

[Derek27]

Their exchange simulator is for the more savvy customers.

I like this the exchange simulator idea, it's good and simple and should attract some new customers if advertised properly.

It's a good idea, I was just laughing at what the guy calls savvy customers.