Looking for love and friendship..... kindof

[youngadam]

I think going in-play is less of a weakness or bad habit. I'd say it's more of a symptom; you lack confidence in your ability to reliably take money from the market.
You say you have an edge, but i feel as if you don't fully trust it.

You said it yourself, that money/profits don't matter at your stage. But again chasing after a tiny loss tells me that profits/money are still at the forefront of your thinking.

Perhaps experiment trading without a profit column? That really helped me to detach my performance from the emotion of money. Also remember that even with a distinct edge, trading is 90% execution. Heck, sound execution is a considerable edge on its own.

And congrats on moving to the South of France. I wish I could make it down to the beach in my free time

Hi Crumpets,

Thanks for the reply and your thoughts.

Going inplay has been an issue i-ve had for quite a while where i'd rather go inplay then accept minus 50p and then suffered a variety of consequences. I really thought i had broken that and that was why saturday was such a biggee for me.

Yes. I definately lack confidence in ability to take money and yes i dont fully trust any edges that have surfaced. This then obviously affects my initial entry as i linger too long only to then see (and miss out) on the movement that occurs.

Yes. I know money and profit aint what i should be concentrating on but i would be lying if i said that this hasnt also affected me. I have to tell myself every day that 'Profit is not important here'. Hopefully one day it will be a by product..

I did try yesterday without the profit column but thats a complete no no - i found it very difficult without it

Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated. The point of the post and the stupid subject matter was really as it sounds - i am just looking for a wee bit of support and a few kind words.... Nobody can teach you this although any mentors are free to apply in writing.

And by the way its pissing down today outside my window.

[youngadam]

You have all the love and support from me youngadam. Lovely opening post which we can all relate to.

Add me to your fan base
Minnie LAI

Yo Minnie LAI

All love taken on board thanks! And i will be off back to visit JollyGreen's work later today..... an inspiration

[youngadam]

Hi Adam,
I'm with Silky.....that was a great post and it's a pity we don't have more open and relatable posts like that.
I work. Sometimes it tires me but it refreshes and exercises me too and I wouldn't want to stop. I think I would become very stale if I were at a screen trading all day but maybe one day I will. Perhaps it would be OK if I could get some walking, fresh air and sun on my face every now and then.
I don't trade pre-race. I hate the ladder but I love the Dutching and Bookmaking functionality and am trying to make friends with TPD. I have certainly made the mistake of which you speak a few times when I haven't matched the full book It's a simple matter of discipline and there's nothing else to be read from that.
Everything is personal. We know where this thing fits in our lives.....if it does. We're all different. Some people don't understand that.
I wish you the greatest success with the trading and look forward to reading your updates.

Dear Safeway,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I agree with you about the forum.

As i said, i have lurked for a long time as i found myself not worthy. It can also be a harsh and unforgiving environment - most of the hard words are probably needed as we aint messing about here.... The number of users and threads that disappear never to be seen again.................................................................

Fresh air, excercise and sun and sleep are all part of this package and should not be taken lightly.

I also wish you the greatest succes my friend.

Onwards.

Adam

[Anbell]

Dallas has a safety bot that will clean up the book if you go in play. You could use that to over-rule your emotions.

here it is
viewtopic.php?t=15199

[youngadam]

Hello,

Long time lingerer and long time wanna be pre-race trader here.

I sympathize with your plight OP, if a man cannot create a relatable post after an outsized loss when can he really?

Not much to say what you wouldn't already know, save for a few words of encouragement.

Indeed, there are some very low lows when trading and the market is brutally honest at times, but the more hits you take the thicker your skin should be. Trading around your emotions is always hard, it's most likely your ultimate test, you see so many try to distance themselves by going the auto route.

But... shouldn't underestimate an outsized loss when it happens, it can impact your mental without you being aware of it, and it ranges from a minor annoyance to a bank-blowing tilt. The immediate urge will be to chase it down further as the outsized loss triggers your flight-or-flight response and you throw away your trading plan to compound the risk further all in a desperate bid to go back to even... but, at the same time you shouldn't be too hard on yourself either. It's easy to forget these types of lessons when they are too far apart.

You see a lot of people try their luck preoff but most don't even seem to enjoy the speculating part or fully embrace the speculative nature of the market, they usually just end up trying to shave off a few ticks here and there. But when you start relying on regular smaller profits and then get hit with the inevitable outsized loss it feels that much harder to accept.

Hopefully you keep going, but I would make sure I actually enjoyed the market and what it offers. If not, there's plenty of other markets.

Hello Kai,

Without trying to sound like a twat, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply, for your wise words and for your encouragement. Your honesty and general friendliness on the forum is not lost on me.

Anyway. Yeah, ive seen you trying to perhaps push people away from pre-race... Im not sure why it attracts me but i do actually like it despite no great love of horse racing.

Automation also would be nice but i see that as rather far down the road as i just dont feel i have the computer knowledge for that but excuse my naivety.

Almost had a wobble yesterday with the now £50 float but survived traded 6 markets and was up a fiver.

Back in the game....

Adam

[youngadam]

Outsized loss. Outsized win. Lots of winning in a row. Lots of losing in a row. It can all lead to bank wrecking loss of control imo. The +4.38 may have led to the -5.88 which may have led to the bank wrecker. Use a servant to get you out if you go above a liability level or go in play. Enjoy the south of France.

Hello Henbet22

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I had a look at ma notes and the +4.38 was a good trade with a shorty. Overconfidence after a decent trade is something i am aware of but definately something i also need to keep a grip on. I think a 'liabilty reached servant' is a good idea and i will add that to list. Thanks again.

[youngadam]

Hi Adam, and Welcome!

This is my second time of writing as my first attempt etherized.

I also lived and worked in the south of France, for five years. I lived there with my partner, he worked in Italy and I, in Menton, France. I'm sure you'll be familiar with this area.

I also moved directly from Scotland, where it rained every day , all day. Two years was enough for me.
I drove across the French Italian border every day to go to work. It's a beautiful place and I found the people especially spontaneous and accepting.

Do you need to rely on your trading income? I imagine that could be very stressful, especially as you have a daughter.
Have you made any of your "own" French friends? They can be very warm and inclusive once you get to know them.

I'd help you if I could, but I'm not very advanced. I just enjoy the challenge of in running horse racing. I sometimes question the purpose of continuing, but hey, life's not that serious, and I'm not using my capital.

I hope you can find inspiration from comments on here.

Btw, I do know someone who moved from here to France quite a few years ago and he just goes around cleaning people's swimming pools. Worth considering.

All the best,

Jackie

Hello Oscar and Jackie

Cheers for the reply. Im down in Montpellier so a bit down the coast from Menton but a nice part of the world.

Coming from Scotland, i never really understood the importance of the weather and its pluses and minuses. If its raining in Scotland it doesnt really affect your day, you just get wet.
A 2 day bad rain period here and the natives start to get restless. I also now understand why tourists to Scotland wear gloves and scalves in July. Its cos its cold. When you live in a warmer climate your body tells you if you go anywhere below the new norm.

Not relying on trading income to live. If i did, i would be dead. But, crossed fingers, that would be nice in the future . Not counting chickens tho. Wont be returning to uk. That is a definate as Brexit has sorted that out with my partner being french.

Friends? Yeah. Montpellier is a young thriving student town. All local transport recently made free for locals and they are currently building the 5th tram line route at the bottom of my street.

Anyways. I digress. Thanks for your words. And good luck to you also.

Adam

[youngadam]

Dallas has a safety bot that will clean up the book if you go in play. You could use that to over-rule your emotions.

here it is
viewtopic.php?t=15199

Hi Anbell,

Wow. Another forum regular whose posts i have appreciated.

Thanks. And thanks for the link.

[greety]

Hi youngadam.
I am an expert, with years of experience (unfortunately in doing the very same thing, not making money at pre off trading lol).
I cured myself by only keeping enough in my account, at any one time so I could not take a heavy loss. Do the losses come because you are exposed on a lay bet? I just try to trade on backing horses so you do not have those big liabilities. I know it's tempting to leave a lay bet open and false optimism will tell you that you will be matched in running. Try trading on horses you want to shorten. Hope this helps to some degree.

[Kai]

Yeah, ive seen you trying to perhaps push people away from pre-race...

People tunnel too much on a single market, whatever it is, 8 years is a lot of time for example. Every market could teach you something different, there could be potentially more suitable markets for them, but they won't know if they don't have a real look.

Don't think I'm biased either way, nor would I imply that it's all marketing and that the markets aren't tradable etc, since ALL markets have their benefits. Don't see why I wouldn't be able to express an honest opinion if I don't have an agenda.

But you're right, there was often a puzzling amount of bias against the IP market in general and I think some of it was/is misunderstood, the part about "never going inplay" strictly being within the context of prerace strategy, which created negative connotations etc, although I think anyone maining IP would very much welcome all of that. But it's not a boogeyman market where you only go into when chasing losses, it's just another normal market, that happens to start when the preoff one finishes. Most of the time.

Also, something I maybe equally like and dislike is the general consensus that the IP market practically only became tradable with the introduction of TPD, I know roughly 10 traders that have been extracting around £500 daily from the IP stuff prior to that, some more and some less, but tbh I don't really know anyone anymore that mains the daily prerace stuff that hasn't moved on to greener pastures.

[youngadam]

https://x.com/enezator/status/1822319796907601998?s=46

Hello. Been a while. Can’t stop going in play because of a £1.00 loss and losing 20£ instead. Help. Don’t suppose anyone fancies a spot of mentoring?

[wearthefoxhat]

https://x.com/enezator/status/1822319796907601998?s=46

Hello. Been a while. Can’t stop going in play because of a £1.00 loss and losing 20£ instead. Help. Don’t suppose anyone fancies a spot of mentoring?

How big is the £1 loss compared to your average £win before you go in-play?

[Michael5482]

https://x.com/enezator/status/1822319796907601998?s=46

Hello. Been a while. Can’t stop going in play because of a £1.00 loss and losing 20£ instead. Help. Don’t suppose anyone fancies a spot of mentoring?

Why don't you create basic automation file that hedges 2 seconds before the scheduled off time and apply it to all markets before you start trading? It'll take the decision of going in-paly away from you?

[youngadam]

https://x.com/enezator/status/1822319796907601998?s=46

Hello. Been a while. Can’t stop going in play because of a £1.00 loss and losing 20£ instead. Help. Don’t suppose anyone fancies a spot of mentoring?

How big is the £1 loss compared to your average £win before you go in-play?

I'm on 10£ and 20£ staking tops so my positives are from 50p to 400p. I understand what i am doing is completely ridiculous. With respect to newbies, I am not a complete newbie and have been watching / trading pre off horses for some time now. I suppose i am just hoping that someone will tell me its something i will hopefully grow out off......

As i said in original post, i live in south of France and have little interaction with other traders and find this forum tough (but fair....) for obvious reasons. Agan i am not asking Peter for the secret formula - i know there aint one. Its a fairly lonely path i continue to venture down, my partner is amazingly understanding but she aint any use when discussing the likes of order flow, volatility or entry signals.

[wearthefoxhat]

I'm not really a mentor, but can throw a couple of scooby doo's at you.

A few assumptions being made here. it looks at though you're manually trading pre-off and get the itch to go in-play as you want to minimise your loss or accept a smaller profit on the trade. Not too sure how the big loss occurred, but somehow, you need to be brutally honest with yourself and review that trade and why you felt the need to chase it in-play. I'm also guessing you Lay first then close/equalise with a back trade. Put a post-it sticky note on your monitor. STOP IN-PLAY TRADING

There was a forum poster on here a few years ago that would lay a big priced runner (80.0+) for 2 -3 ticks pre-off, if it wasn't matched they let it go in-play "confident" that at some time during in-play, it was bound to hit the price and complete the trade irrespective of the result. You can guess how that ended up. One of the runners layed at 100.00 was gambled down to 25.00 just before the off, as it went in-play it never got about 25.00 and went on to win the race. Wiped out the bank and any gains/confidence built up over time.

Not sure (as it your business) what your research has shown and the odds ranges you look at. I'd focus on/watch the short odds runners (favourites) and either back or lay if your technical indicators trigger an opportunity. Peter has adapted alarms/alerts to steer him to a market that may have a good set up. His you-tube videos show him reading the market flow and placing test orders that might get taken and then reverse just as quickly.

At lower odds, pre-off, swing trading with a stop loss would be a fair approach. (lower liability). One other poster said Dallas has a saver bot that you could add to guardian as a fail safe to avoid to going in-play or at least get you out of the trade if it did.

I do use the in-play trader for specifically in-play trading, but pre-off is a different animal.