Perhaps a simplistic way of looking at it could be:
> If you're taking offers then it's perhaps more beneficial to have XM switched on to have total visibility of positions available to take.
> If you're putting up positions for others to take then it could be more beneficial to have XM switched off so you have greater visibility of real money positions and queue sizes.
eg in my previous example you might not want to put up an offer on Tails @ 1.99 if you could put one up @ 1.98 and push to the front of the queue because the money already there is XM.
Cross Matching - on or off?
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 10355
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
Gpt;
Yes, I'm familiar with cross matching on the Betfair Exchange. Cross matching is an automated process that improves market efficiency by creating additional liquidity. Here's how it works and the pros and cons of enabling it or switching it off:
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What is Cross Matching?
Cross matching automatically searches for unmatched bets within a market and matches them in a way that creates a new bet to improve the market's efficiency. For instance:
If someone places a back bet on Selection A, and there’s no corresponding lay bet available, the system checks if Selection B or others could fulfill part of the bet using the relative probabilities.
This process can create better prices by using available liquidity across the entire market rather than a single selection.
Cross matching also incorporates virtual bets, which are displayed as available liquidity in the market, although they’re derived from real bets on other outcomes.
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Pros of Cross Matching
1. Improved Liquidity
More bets are matched because the system combines multiple selections to create matches that wouldn’t exist otherwise.
2. Better Prices
Bettors might get slightly better odds on some bets due to the additional liquidity and the system’s ability to optimize prices.
3. Efficient Market
The process reduces gaps in the market, creating smoother odds ladders, especially in less liquid markets.
4. More Opportunities for Arbitrage
Cross matching might reveal small pricing inefficiencies that skilled traders can exploit.
---
Cons of Cross Matching
1. Reduced Transparency
Virtual bets and automated adjustments make it harder to assess actual liquidity and true market dynamics.
2. Conflict with Manual Trading Strategies
Traders who rely on understanding the raw unmatched bets might find it harder to gauge market sentiment or depth accurately.
3. Potential for Worse Prices
If cross matching prioritizes matching over optimal pricing, a trader’s bet might be matched at slightly less favorable odds than if cross matching were off.
4. Unfair Advantage for Betfair
Betfair collects a commission on the difference between the original matched bet and the cross-matched bet. This is often referred to as a hidden "implied commission," which some traders feel is unfair.
5. Complexity in Analysis
Historical market data may not reflect the natural market but instead a manipulated one due to cross matching, complicating data analysis and modeling.
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Having Cross Matching On vs. Off
Switched On: Default for most users and markets, ensuring better liquidity and improved chances of getting matched. Ideal for casual bettors or those focused on simple strategies.
Switched Off: Useful for advanced traders who rely on manually gauging market behavior, analyzing raw data, or avoiding the virtual distortions caused by cross matching.
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Ultimately, the decision to keep cross matching enabled depends on your trading or betting strategy.
Yes, I'm familiar with cross matching on the Betfair Exchange. Cross matching is an automated process that improves market efficiency by creating additional liquidity. Here's how it works and the pros and cons of enabling it or switching it off:
---
What is Cross Matching?
Cross matching automatically searches for unmatched bets within a market and matches them in a way that creates a new bet to improve the market's efficiency. For instance:
If someone places a back bet on Selection A, and there’s no corresponding lay bet available, the system checks if Selection B or others could fulfill part of the bet using the relative probabilities.
This process can create better prices by using available liquidity across the entire market rather than a single selection.
Cross matching also incorporates virtual bets, which are displayed as available liquidity in the market, although they’re derived from real bets on other outcomes.
---
Pros of Cross Matching
1. Improved Liquidity
More bets are matched because the system combines multiple selections to create matches that wouldn’t exist otherwise.
2. Better Prices
Bettors might get slightly better odds on some bets due to the additional liquidity and the system’s ability to optimize prices.
3. Efficient Market
The process reduces gaps in the market, creating smoother odds ladders, especially in less liquid markets.
4. More Opportunities for Arbitrage
Cross matching might reveal small pricing inefficiencies that skilled traders can exploit.
---
Cons of Cross Matching
1. Reduced Transparency
Virtual bets and automated adjustments make it harder to assess actual liquidity and true market dynamics.
2. Conflict with Manual Trading Strategies
Traders who rely on understanding the raw unmatched bets might find it harder to gauge market sentiment or depth accurately.
3. Potential for Worse Prices
If cross matching prioritizes matching over optimal pricing, a trader’s bet might be matched at slightly less favorable odds than if cross matching were off.
4. Unfair Advantage for Betfair
Betfair collects a commission on the difference between the original matched bet and the cross-matched bet. This is often referred to as a hidden "implied commission," which some traders feel is unfair.
5. Complexity in Analysis
Historical market data may not reflect the natural market but instead a manipulated one due to cross matching, complicating data analysis and modeling.
---
Having Cross Matching On vs. Off
Switched On: Default for most users and markets, ensuring better liquidity and improved chances of getting matched. Ideal for casual bettors or those focused on simple strategies.
Switched Off: Useful for advanced traders who rely on manually gauging market behavior, analyzing raw data, or avoiding the virtual distortions caused by cross matching.
---
Ultimately, the decision to keep cross matching enabled depends on your trading or betting strategy.
Right, yes that's how I understand it thanks. The fact so many people don't actually know it inside out worries me a bit, hence why I was just trying to gauge what 'most people do' as a basic guide for now until I get to grips with it (if I ever do!)
thanks for the help
thanks for the help
I am well aware of GPT's existence. It's not a magician, it doesn't 'know' anything, it's just heard lots of stuff that it READ online. It's a rumour mill on steroids.ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2024 2:39 pmGpt;.......
Ultimately, the decision to keep cross matching enabled depends on your trading or betting strategy.
I have read and watched more youtube videos on it than your bot has. Unless your bot has an answer to 'what do most pre race traders prefer?', and preferably one which doens't include a load of company blurb and other useless BS (such is the nature of GPT, regurgitating stuff 'someone' once wrote online), it has no value here. It did however, in it's magical 'efficiency', cause both of us to waste time here discussing it. Hooray for 'progress'.
So my order will go ahead of a queue of virtual money, that's very good to know thanks.
That's my view of AI too: that it's just a curator of everything published on the internet. It can only 'know' what people with an ulterior motive were motivated enough to publish, which means it's entirely biased. It ignores the silent majority because it has no other choice.Blondie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2024 4:12 pmIt's not a magician, it doesn't 'know' anything, it's just heard lots of stuff that it READ online.ShaunWhite wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2024 2:39 pmGpt;.......
Ultimately, the decision to keep cross matching enabled depends on your trading or betting strategy.
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 10355
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
Garbage in garbage out. An exemplar, 'we' worked out the concentration of acid and neutraliser to de-rust my petrol tank. It calculated the neutraliser required for the 33l of acid not just the residue when it's emptied. I asked why it had done that..... It had read it on the Internet. After being corrected the bicarb went down from 3.1kg to 100g. You can't even dissolve 3.1kg of sodium bicarb in 33l unless it's about 30 degrees.weemac wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2024 4:47 pmThat's my view of AI too: that it's just a curator of everything published on the internet. It can only 'know' what people with an ulterior motive were motivated enough to publish, which means it's entirely biased. It ignores the silent majority because it has no other choice.
Told it to believe nothing and validate everything and got the usual chirpy "Certainly!" but it won't.
Ha, that's funny!!
I could 'easily' get humans to do exactly what AI can do. If I hired a team of a million researchers, who all had perfect memory recall, and they read every single thing ever written (by 'authoritative sources', which is where the seriously scary sh*t starts, who defines THAT exactly?!) - I'd have AI. It doesn't 'do' anything, it just has a scarily impressive database of information plugged into it, ALL of which was ONCE PRODUCED by a HUMAN!
95% facts/data, 5% reasoning (also learned from humans of course), and you have a very powerful and arguably extremely dangerous machine. It will be what it will be, I keep my fingers crossed though, as there are downsides which are unfathomable, but like splitting the atom if you ask me! (But you didn't)
I have a friend who's a technical author, he's written some seriously cool stuff on some seriously cool topics. He now learns that much of his unique work has been hoovered up into AI and companies profit from that information being known by their 'bot'. I thought legal actions would be likely, but probably not, it's one of those movements that are just too big to oppose, ethics be damned.
that said, I use it when it's useful, and it often is. Converting dimensions of fence posts this morning from BLOODY METRIC to imperial (I want a 6 foot long 4inch post, NO i am not saying that in millimetres!). I copied the descriptions from websites showing metric, and told AI to give it to me in plain effing English. It worked.
(I could have done it pretty quick without AI of course, but not AS quick. Hence, AI is speed. Some might say meth amphet
)
It's not just our view, it's the absolute fact. AI is nothing more than 'speed'.
I could 'easily' get humans to do exactly what AI can do. If I hired a team of a million researchers, who all had perfect memory recall, and they read every single thing ever written (by 'authoritative sources', which is where the seriously scary sh*t starts, who defines THAT exactly?!) - I'd have AI. It doesn't 'do' anything, it just has a scarily impressive database of information plugged into it, ALL of which was ONCE PRODUCED by a HUMAN!
95% facts/data, 5% reasoning (also learned from humans of course), and you have a very powerful and arguably extremely dangerous machine. It will be what it will be, I keep my fingers crossed though, as there are downsides which are unfathomable, but like splitting the atom if you ask me! (But you didn't
)I have a friend who's a technical author, he's written some seriously cool stuff on some seriously cool topics. He now learns that much of his unique work has been hoovered up into AI and companies profit from that information being known by their 'bot'. I thought legal actions would be likely, but probably not, it's one of those movements that are just too big to oppose, ethics be damned.
that said, I use it when it's useful, and it often is. Converting dimensions of fence posts this morning from BLOODY METRIC to imperial (I want a 6 foot long 4inch post, NO i am not saying that in millimetres!). I copied the descriptions from websites showing metric, and told AI to give it to me in plain effing English. It worked.
(I could have done it pretty quick without AI of course, but not AS quick. Hence, AI is speed. Some might say meth amphet
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 10355
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
It's a fact in version 4o but version o1 uses reasoning. It's why it's slower. If you use it for coding you notice the difference. It won't be the last version.
In this case I think you can probably default to: The fact so many people don't actually know it inside out means that it probably isnt important to most people most of the time, and you can most probably ignore it
Don't think it matters much for stuff like racing, it only has one tradable market in effect, but if people have a specific situational use for it you can expect them to be a bit stingy with this info
I find the cross-market XM part to be one of the main benefits since it spreads some liquidity to other markets and makes them sort of tradable too, for example a trade like this wouldn't really be possible otherwise, it's another way to keep trading a match after MO goes to 1.01 and becomes untradable
So I wouldn't obsess over it too much, obviously a market is a bit deeper than it looks at first glance whether you have it on or off because of iceberg orders where only the "tip of the iceberg" is really visible at any given time
Would be helpful if software had a way of displaying virtual money differently so you would have all the relevant info at hand right away
Hope that helps
I find the cross-market XM part to be one of the main benefits since it spreads some liquidity to other markets and makes them sort of tradable too, for example a trade like this wouldn't really be possible otherwise, it's another way to keep trading a match after MO goes to 1.01 and becomes untradable
So I wouldn't obsess over it too much, obviously a market is a bit deeper than it looks at first glance whether you have it on or off because of iceberg orders where only the "tip of the iceberg" is really visible at any given time
Would be helpful if software had a way of displaying virtual money differently so you would have all the relevant info at hand right away
Hope that helps
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 10355
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
To clarify, switching XM on or off just changes the price info being displayed to include or exclude virtual bets. Whether the matching engine uses XM for a market is set by the exchange, to opt out of that you'd also have to switch off Best Execution at account level.
If I'm not mistaken, turning XM off can actually have real world consequences in one situation. Namely, if you place a bet at say 'best available' and have virtual prices turned off then the bet will be placed wherever there is 'real' money. (I think)