Inplay Racing and getting out of trouble

[Alpha322]

Would fully agree with Fugazi and question might be 'why are you getting into trouble in first place?' & is there any way to minimise or avoid it entirely?

No matter what automation you create, in play & late in the race is going to be hit and miss and give you poor return long term.
I trade in play but i'll never have an open position late in the race (after 50...at a stretch 65% of the race)

Totally Agree i only Trade in Play after a successful Closed Unhedged Trade then i tell the servant if the particular Horse (Traded one) hits a certain price in play Green up 66% of Trade value as Favourite has a 33% chance win. If it don't reach the price it Greens up, just need to tweak for Race timings. But i dont do anything with open positions except Football but again thats for a condition green up. Going in play open position in Horse Racing is like standing on the edge of a Cliff

[tico]

Hi Alpha,

If you never have an open position after 50-60% how do you make money ?
I find it's the back end of the race where the cash comes pouring in (or out) especially the sprints
Kind Regards
Tico

[Kendrick]

This is where I saw the "get out of trouble" button.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxe_UmAF3B0

check the video from 7.25 onwards

Ok so in the context of the video the person isn't getting into ridiculous positions and it's just the language he uses.

Have you been able to get this button as you call it. Has anyone from the forum helped you, or was it just suspect lectures?

[Fugazi]

This is where I saw the "get out of trouble" button.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxe_UmAF3B0

check the video from 7.25 onwards

Ok so in the context of the video the person isn't getting into ridiculous positions and it's just the language he uses.

Have you been able to get this button as you call it. Has anyone from the forum helped you, or was it just suspect lectures?

OP

Click the green up button. If it fails click again. It will be very poor value to do so in play however with the spread sizes. Any other method that is more economical, is less likely to get matched.

There is no magic solution that's why nobody had provided one. Peter has already created a function that will be the same as or better than what was in that video

I do like this guy's videos however. Some golden info for me on how to spot a struggling horse

[Kendrick]

This is where I saw the "get out of trouble" button.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxe_UmAF3B0

check the video from 7.25 onwards

Ok so in the context of the video the person isn't getting into ridiculous positions and it's just the language he uses.

Have you been able to get this button as you call it. Has anyone from the forum helped you, or was it just suspect lectures?

OP

Click the green up button. If it fails click again. It will be very poor value to do so in play however with the spread sizes. Any other method that is more economical, is less likely to get matched.

There is no magic solution that's why nobody had provided one. Peter has already created a function that will be the same as or better than what was in that video

I do like this guy's videos however. Some golden info for me on how to spot a struggling horse

Sorry no one can create a button like in the video?? It's not a magic solution and the green up feature already in bet angel isn't what they after.

It seems extraordinarily difficult to get help on this forum at times. I had the same problem trying to get a 50% notification. What's wrong with helping people? Is it gatekeeping, egos, what is it?

[jamesedwards]

Sorry no one can create a button like in the video?? It's not a magic solution and the green up feature already in bet angel isn't what they after.

It seems extraordinarily difficult to get help on this forum at times. I had the same problem trying to get a 50% notification. What's wrong with helping people? Is it gatekeeping, egos, what is it?

The answer was in the second post.

[Kendrick]

Sorry no one can create a button like in the video?? It's not a magic solution and the green up feature already in bet angel isn't what they after.

It seems extraordinarily difficult to get help on this forum at times. I had the same problem trying to get a 50% notification. What's wrong with helping people? Is it gatekeeping, egos, what is it?

The answer was in the second post.

Hi James you were eventually the person who helped me. I couldn't create it myself and I tried so many times. Thanks again it is probably the biggest thing to help my p/l.

I wonder if Mark has managed to create this or he himself isn't able to?

[Fugazi]

Ok so in the context of the video the person isn't getting into ridiculous positions and it's just the language he uses.

Have you been able to get this button as you call it. Has anyone from the forum helped you, or was it just suspect lectures?

OP

Click the green up button. If it fails click again. It will be very poor value to do so in play however with the spread sizes. Any other method that is more economical, is less likely to get matched.

There is no magic solution that's why nobody had provided one. Peter has already created a function that will be the same as or better than what was in that video

I do like this guy's videos however. Some golden info for me on how to spot a struggling horse

Sorry no one can create a button like in the video?? It's not a magic solution and the green up feature already in bet angel isn't what they after.

It seems extraordinarily difficult to get help on this forum at times. I had the same problem trying to get a 50% notification. What's wrong with helping people? Is it gatekeeping, egos, what is it?

I don't understand how it differs to green up.. when you click green up it cancels existing bets? Or maybe it doesn't, I never use it. I dont think it's gatekeeping / egos. For me, I don't know how to do what he's asking. But mostly, I don't try figure it out because it does not seem a good use of my time or OPs time. Making this button is not going to make OP profitable, I would rather spend 2 hours explaining to OP about why it isn't going to be a helpful button, than an hour making the button. I am trying to help the OP as best as I can even if I can't provide exactly what he asked for.

Exiting trades isn't where the money is made, but you can lose a lot of EV with the exit considering the spread. Or if you argue that you can make money with the exit, then your exit bet would work as a standalone bet without the entry. Preoff, if I'm backing at 5, lay at 4 and the horse is BSP 4.2, then both bets are value as standalone bets. It's just a gimmick to think by backing and laying the horse I did some magic trading thing that I couldn't have just done with one bet (in this case could have used double the stake backing at 5, ignoring scaling problems)

What matters is the bet in isolation, and your bankroll / stake size . This is why I wouldn't try and figure out the answer to OPs button - it's not going to make them more profitable, but could detract from an otherwise profitable strategy if they just let it ride. That button could turn +3 percent ROI to -5% ROI given the massive spread you concede in play. This button gives the illusion of being helpful by reducing short term variance. But actually, it could well be trashing a good strategy and mislead OP to thinking they're not picking the right bets.

What I do know though OP, is that guys videos around being on the bit / off the bit are great.

[Kendrick]

OP

Click the green up button. If it fails click again. It will be very poor value to do so in play however with the spread sizes. Any other method that is more economical, is less likely to get matched.

There is no magic solution that's why nobody had provided one. Peter has already created a function that will be the same as or better than what was in that video

I do like this guy's videos however. Some golden info for me on how to spot a struggling horse

Sorry no one can create a button like in the video?? It's not a magic solution and the green up feature already in bet angel isn't what they after.

It seems extraordinarily difficult to get help on this forum at times. I had the same problem trying to get a 50% notification. What's wrong with helping people? Is it gatekeeping, egos, what is it?

I don't understand how it differs to green up.. when you click green up it cancels existing bets? Or maybe it doesn't, I never use it. I dont think it's gatekeeping / egos. For me, I don't know how to do what he's asking. But mostly, I don't try figure it out because it does not seem a good use of my time or OPs time. Making this button is not going to make OP profitable, I would rather spend 2 hours explaining to OP about why it isn't going to be a helpful button, than an hour making the button. I am trying to help the OP as best as I can even if I can't provide exactly what he asked for.

Exiting trades isn't where the money is made, but you can lose a lot of EV with the exit considering the spread. Or if you argue that you can make money with the exit, then your exit bet would work as a standalone bet without the entry. Preoff, if I'm backing at 5, lay at 4 and the horse is BSP 4.2, then both bets are value as standalone bets. It's just a gimmick to think by backing and laying the horse I did some magic trading thing that I couldn't have just done with one bet (in this case could have used double the stake backing at 5, ignoring scaling problems)

What matters is the entry bet, and your bankroll / stake size . This is why I wouldn't try and figure out the answer to OPs button - it's not going to make them more profitable, but could detract from an otherwise profitable strategy if they just let it ride. That button could turn +3 percent ROI to -5% ROI

What you and others think is best for OP isn't. Thats the problem. When you begin gambling/trading mistakes and bad habits are inevitable for most. I had a problem still entering or not closing trades after 50% of a race and it was costing me money. Yes I should be able to sort this out on my own, but just having a voice saying "50%" instantly fixed this for me. Im hundreds of pounds a week better off. Now I think I could do it without the alert most of the time, but I dont want to stop using it. No way. Its important to my trading, but it might not be to others.

So OP IS going to get into some trades he shouldn't AND he's also going to have things go against him. You can lay a horse and be sure its the weak one or the price is wrong. Within the next few fences or hurdles one of the horses taking up a big percentage falls. Now your lay still might finish last, BUT do you want to risk the full amount when one of your reasons for entering is now not on your side. Some would, some wouldn't. I would probably trade out, take the loss and move on. Because actually it isn't really going to make a big difference to my week or month. But if I dont trade out and then it finds a second and third wind and wins that full loss may destroy my week and month. It happens. There is nothing wrong with this button at all. The button should prevent a full loss, especially if used around 50% of the race, so it is profitable.

[Fugazi]

Sorry no one can create a button like in the video?? It's not a magic solution and the green up feature already in bet angel isn't what they after.

It seems extraordinarily difficult to get help on this forum at times. I had the same problem trying to get a 50% notification. What's wrong with helping people? Is it gatekeeping, egos, what is it?

I don't understand how it differs to green up.. when you click green up it cancels existing bets? Or maybe it doesn't, I never use it. I dont think it's gatekeeping / egos. For me, I don't know how to do what he's asking. But mostly, I don't try figure it out because it does not seem a good use of my time or OPs time. Making this button is not going to make OP profitable, I would rather spend 2 hours explaining to OP about why it isn't going to be a helpful button, than an hour making the button. I am trying to help the OP as best as I can even if I can't provide exactly what he asked for.

Exiting trades isn't where the money is made, but you can lose a lot of EV with the exit considering the spread. Or if you argue that you can make money with the exit, then your exit bet would work as a standalone bet without the entry. Preoff, if I'm backing at 5, lay at 4 and the horse is BSP 4.2, then both bets are value as standalone bets. It's just a gimmick to think by backing and laying the horse I did some magic trading thing that I couldn't have just done with one bet (in this case could have used double the stake backing at 5, ignoring scaling problems)

What matters is the entry bet, and your bankroll / stake size . This is why I wouldn't try and figure out the answer to OPs button - it's not going to make them more profitable, but could detract from an otherwise profitable strategy if they just let it ride. That button could turn +3 percent ROI to -5% ROI

What you and others think is best for OP isn't. Thats the problem. When you begin gambling/trading mistakes and bad habits are inevitable for most. I had a problem still entering or not closing trades after 50% of a race and it was costing me money. Yes I should be able to sort this out on my own, but just having a voice saying "50%" instantly fixed this for me. Im hundreds of pounds a week better off. Now I think I could do it without the alert most of the time, but I dont want to stop using it. No way. Its important to my trading, but it might not be to others.

So OP IS going to get into some trades he shouldn't AND he's also going to have things go against him. You can lay a horse and be sure its the weak one or the price is wrong. Within the next few fences or hurdles one of the horses taking up a big percentage falls. Now your lay still might finish last, BUT do you want to risk the full amount when one of your reasons for entering is now not on your side. Some would, some wouldn't. I would probably trade out, take the loss and move on. Because actually it isn't really going to make a big difference to my week or month. But if I dont trade out and then it finds a second and third wind and wins that full loss may destroy my week and month. It happens. There is nothing wrong with this button at all. The button should prevent a full loss, especially if used around 50% of the race, so it is profitable.

So say at 50% the best lay price is 5.0 and best back price 3.5. true odds 4.2

That's a giant amount of ROI to concede. And I don't deny people have the issues you explained.

But what I'm saying is the optimal solution is to fix your psychology and stake sizing,and let it ride. That's the most profitable. It's hard to profit as it is without kneecapping yourself greening up in play

[Kendrick]

I don't understand how it differs to green up.. when you click green up it cancels existing bets? Or maybe it doesn't, I never use it. I dont think it's gatekeeping / egos. For me, I don't know how to do what he's asking. But mostly, I don't try figure it out because it does not seem a good use of my time or OPs time. Making this button is not going to make OP profitable, I would rather spend 2 hours explaining to OP about why it isn't going to be a helpful button, than an hour making the button. I am trying to help the OP as best as I can even if I can't provide exactly what he asked for.

Exiting trades isn't where the money is made, but you can lose a lot of EV with the exit considering the spread. Or if you argue that you can make money with the exit, then your exit bet would work as a standalone bet without the entry. Preoff, if I'm backing at 5, lay at 4 and the horse is BSP 4.2, then both bets are value as standalone bets. It's just a gimmick to think by backing and laying the horse I did some magic trading thing that I couldn't have just done with one bet (in this case could have used double the stake backing at 5, ignoring scaling problems)

What matters is the entry bet, and your bankroll / stake size . This is why I wouldn't try and figure out the answer to OPs button - it's not going to make them more profitable, but could detract from an otherwise profitable strategy if they just let it ride. That button could turn +3 percent ROI to -5% ROI

What you and others think is best for OP isn't. Thats the problem. When you begin gambling/trading mistakes and bad habits are inevitable for most. I had a problem still entering or not closing trades after 50% of a race and it was costing me money. Yes I should be able to sort this out on my own, but just having a voice saying "50%" instantly fixed this for me. Im hundreds of pounds a week better off. Now I think I could do it without the alert most of the time, but I dont want to stop using it. No way. Its important to my trading, but it might not be to others.

So OP IS going to get into some trades he shouldn't AND he's also going to have things go against him. You can lay a horse and be sure its the weak one or the price is wrong. Within the next few fences or hurdles one of the horses taking up a big percentage falls. Now your lay still might finish last, BUT do you want to risk the full amount when one of your reasons for entering is now not on your side. Some would, some wouldn't. I would probably trade out, take the loss and move on. Because actually it isn't really going to make a big difference to my week or month. But if I dont trade out and then it finds a second and third wind and wins that full loss may destroy my week and month. It happens. There is nothing wrong with this button at all. The button should prevent a full loss, especially if used around 50% of the race, so it is profitable.

So say at 50% the best lay price is 5.0 and best back price 3.5. true odds 4.2

That's a giant amount of ROI to concede. And I don't deny people have the issues you explained.

But what I'm saying is the optimal solution is to fix your psychology and stake sizing,and let it ride. That's the most profitable. It's hard to profit as it is without kneecapping yourself greening up in play

WHAT?!?! That is TERRIBLE advice. If people are getting into trades that blow their banks, yes obviously they need to stop getting into these trades, but exiting for a much smaller loss IS the thing they should do. In my example letting it ride is horrendous advice. WOW. I see horses all the time that the "true odds" are plain wrong. But I have my staking limits and rules and therefore am not wiping out or taking up the whole market. An example from two days ago I think was the Adaay horse in the sprint. It looked beat after 100 yards so I laid to my maximum loss. The "true odds" were completely wrong it should have been close to 20 and I laid 5.8. I do sometimes get it wrong, OR I think my reasons for entering aren't as strong so I close the trade. Im not losing EV or ROI because its by far the best thing for my trading, both P/L and mentally. Maybe it isn't for you and others and maybe in time as I hopefully continue to improve the percentage of my trades that are solid gets higher and higher. But currently im not perfect.

Surely you see people backing and laying poor value all the time, I do! Im taking their bets a lot of the time. They should be trading out!

[jamesedwards]

But what I'm saying is the optimal solution is to fix your psychology and stake sizing,and let it ride. That's the most profitable. It's hard to profit as it is without kneecapping yourself greening up in play

WHAT?!?! That is TERRIBLE advice. If people are getting into trades that blow their banks, yes obviously they need to stop getting into these trades, but exiting for a much smaller loss IS the thing they should do. In my example letting it ride is horrendous advice. WOW. I see horses all the time that the "true odds" are plain wrong. But I have my staking limits and rules and therefore am not wiping out or taking up the whole market. An example from two days ago I think was the Adaay horse in the sprint. It looked beat after 100 yards so I laid to my maximum loss. The "true odds" were completely wrong it should have been close to 20 and I laid 5.8. I do sometimes get it wrong, OR I think my reasons for entering aren't as strong so I close the trade. Im not losing EV or ROI because its by far the best thing for my trading, both P/L and mentally. Maybe it isn't for you and others and maybe in time as I hopefully continue to improve the percentage of my trades that are solid gets higher and higher. But currently im not perfect.

Surely you see people backing and laying poor value all the time, I do! Im taking their bets a lot of the time. They should be trading out!

Blindly trading out at any cost to limit a loss is for people emotionally attached to their initial trade. Best view every trade (entry and exit) individually on their own merits which will improve your ROI in the long run.

The OP's concept of a button 'to get you out of trouble' says to me this is the former, and the advice from seasoned pros on this thread is appropriate IMO.

[Fugazi]

I think the issue is your interpretation of what I'm saying, not what I'm saying.

Maybe someone will articulate it better

[Kendrick]

I think the issue is your interpretation of what I'm saying, not what I'm saying.

Maybe someone will articulate it better

Likewise??

[Kendrick]

But what I'm saying is the optimal solution is to fix your psychology and stake sizing,and let it ride. That's the most profitable. It's hard to profit as it is without kneecapping yourself greening up in play

WHAT?!?! That is TERRIBLE advice. If people are getting into trades that blow their banks, yes obviously they need to stop getting into these trades, but exiting for a much smaller loss IS the thing they should do. In my example letting it ride is horrendous advice. WOW. I see horses all the time that the "true odds" are plain wrong. But I have my staking limits and rules and therefore am not wiping out or taking up the whole market. An example from two days ago I think was the Adaay horse in the sprint. It looked beat after 100 yards so I laid to my maximum loss. The "true odds" were completely wrong it should have been close to 20 and I laid 5.8. I do sometimes get it wrong, OR I think my reasons for entering aren't as strong so I close the trade. Im not losing EV or ROI because its by far the best thing for my trading, both P/L and mentally. Maybe it isn't for you and others and maybe in time as I hopefully continue to improve the percentage of my trades that are solid gets higher and higher. But currently im not perfect.

Surely you see people backing and laying poor value all the time, I do! Im taking their bets a lot of the time. They should be trading out!

Blindly trading out at any cost to limit a loss is for people emotionally attached to their initial trade. Best view every trade (entry and exit) individually on their own merits which will improve your ROI in the long run.

The OP's concept of a button 'to get you out of trouble' says to me this is the former, and the advice from seasoned pros on this thread is appropriate IMO.

Who said "blindly trading out at any cost"? No one?

Why are people solely concentrating on those words?? What if the button was called "sometimes I change my mind and want to exit for a SMALL loss"? Would this even be a discussion?

Why is it so hard to get help on this forum?? I had the same problem and somebody else who asked for the same automation as me a YEAR before never got the help. He posted after you eventually did help us, others didn't seem to care to be honest or posted incorrect links or instructions I couldn't follow, to say what im saying now and his post was deleted.

I understand what people are saing re ROI etc, but why cant people just help OP? Why all the suspect lectures and "we know best"?