Trading on Betfair for a living

[freddy]

Most of the problems you attribute to trading are actually problems that come with any succsess imo.

Before I was a trader, i ran successful businesses and ran in to all of your above problems.

thats just life, people do get jealous and act differently around you, but thats their problem not yours.

Trading If Anything has made me more confident as a person, just think there are a tiny tiny % of people who can do what we do well.
a reason to feel goo about yourself surely.

[mugsgame]

That is a very poignant post M.

I'm particularly impressed with your desire to get into voluntary work, something I've done very little of. Whichever way you look at it, trading has had a profound effect on your life.

Good luck for the future,

I appreciate your comment P.

Most of the problems you attribute to trading are actually problems that come with any succsess imo

Freddy I agree with that statement. My point is when you have had enough of this business, and want to go back to your "old" life, it isn't there anymore, and everything is against you picking up the threads again. I realise this can apply to alot of jobs. Lets not delude ourselves here, whatever way we dress this up as it isn't a "job". It can be a lucrative way of making a living, but then so is growing cannabis.

[freddy]

Well it's definitely a job in my eyes,

When asked i tell people im a self employed trader,
i don't tend to mention Betfair as some people get the wrong idea. But most people seem to think ive got a good job.

If you have had enough of trading then im sure there are a million other things you could do and i don't see how a few years as a self employed trader on your c.v is the end of the world .

[CaerMyrddin]

I understand what you mean perfectly, I'm 31 and I think it would be very difficult already to explain a potencial boss what I've been doing recently. It's a trap in a certain way and it surely isn't as glamorous as some might think.

But I've got to agree with Freddy, some of the aspects you are referring to are cash and envy related.

In a recent conversation with a friend we were talking about we would do if we hit a big prize in the lottery for instance.

I told him I would give away most of the cash and he didn't understand at first. Then I told him that I would lose his friendship for instance if I kept and used the money. He told me that ti was nonsense and that we could spend big time hollidays and that stuff and that our friendship would be reinforced.

IMHO that's the problem, I didn't win anything and I won't as I don't play the lottery, but if I did he was already thinking about enjoying the cash.

From my perspective that would be nice at first, but I guess I would eventually wonder why he was hanging with me. I wouldn't be able to just invite him and expect him to pay the bill, would I?

And how would he feel? Like a leach? Or that I would have an obligation to pay him?

I would rather keep my life basically as it is

Btw I drive a 1995 diesel Corolla that my wife really hates.

PS: one has time to write when trading football. So sloooooowwwwww...

[gutuami]

In a recent conversation with a friend we were talking about we would do if we hit a big prize in the lottery for instance.

If I ever get lots of free money I'll try the "mad bomber profile" on betfair for one day than read ba forum

[theman73]

Well , i think i'm on the oposite said

I just learn trading , i'm 37 old and literaly almost no friends , just because i have a succesfull period (at my standards) and my so called friends didnt understand , i'm not obliged to pay theyr debts or to grow theyr life standards

I'm at home , i have a boy 1 year old , have plenty of free time , but at this time i dont know how to use it , my patience is unlimited , mybe because i was also involved in arbs .

Just i hopes after a few years i will write same message like you ,

[AReasonedView]

In answer to Trader1978.....a common error of those not so much 'in the know' is to say 'what about when the big loser comes along?'...some think you will have a number of wins followed by the odd big loser. Others also not in the know can't understand you can pretty much win,win win. They think it can't be done because they can't do it so assume nobody else can! Well once you know what you are doing & in particular get out of trades that are going against you ASAP you limit any losses. The biggest worry about big losses to be honest are with any Betfair crash and we all know about them of late. Good traders have losses and know when to take them but they have lots of other winners in between which produce steady profitability. I actually messed up the MU/Marseille game last night and lost £100 but I'll get it back and a bit more today...

One other thing which has been mentioned above is to try to take time out and do others things allowing you to be more refreshed. A couple of years ago I said I'd take more time off on Sundays but then I had to work more on Sundays to make up for the shortfall when they introduced the Premium Charge! It is good to have a break though - I had 2-3 months off after the World cup last year.

It's basically, work hard, practice, understand your market & how it works, be disciplined...

[PeterLe]

Hi
An interesting post

Surely its like any job; after a while it becomes a little mundane...and every job has its ups and downs.

I have a full time job and earn good salary and the Betfair was initially intended to be a supplement. Over time the trading has overtaken my salary and given me a different perspective on life.
I too work in sales and believe me it's not easy out there. If and when I get the chance to take redundancy I will take it and do this full time.
Ironically, trading has actually enabled me to be better at my job. I don't put in the ridiculous hours I once did and am much more at ease losing a sale, if I lose it I'm not that bothered anymore....( I turned down a £3.3m order a few weeks because they wanted a £300K reduction...I wouldnt have done that at one time; I am still confident in securing the deal)..and here's the strange thing...I now work less at my job and I have still hit my target the last two years (and will this year).

The earning potential is there if you persevere, just when I think I am reaching the ceiling, I set a new standard. God knows how much some people are making on here...and believe it or not I actually set a new one day trading record today and thought about attaching it to this to show what the potential is..but decided not to.
Reading Adam's posts and him showing his trading profits gave me something to aim for, although some frowned on him showing his P&L...I didn't. Is this just a British thing? The US are different again)

However, I do take on board the comments in the posts above. I never tell my friends how much I'm making on here, there is no point, some of them are struggling and it would only rub salt into the wounds.
My best friend (who I met at Primary school 43 years ago!) has an inkling. The reason he has an idea is because he too has an account and I trade it for him sometimes. So he shares in my success. (That day record above - was on his account! Dam!)..I know what some will say...about trading someone elses account and tax etc...but it would be impossible to prove...whos to say he wasn't sitting sitting at my desk...So Mugsgame understand your comments but I do try and spread a little around?
Part of our winnings is funding a trip to Vegas this year and next year we are doing a mid life bike trip across American with the proceeds..
I've actually given away a lot of my profits to family to help them out and personally get a lot of pleasure doing that...and touch wood will continue to do so. i would never have been able to do that without Betfair.
I can honesty say that Betfair has changed my life in some ways and the life of my children and long may it continue.
In another two months the Sun will be out and...who knows we might have a stable Betfair too!
...meanwhile, I now have to go over my forecast for the Friday forecast call! It's OK for you full timers!

regards
Peter

[mugsgame]

Peter good post.

You are in employment so it changes your perspective completely. At work you perform better, because the pressure is off if you know you can walk away and make the same money anyway. The trading aspect is in effect "pocket money" which you don't rely on to live and support your family. If you are just trading the pressure to perform effects every decision you make.

I have made big mistakes handling the way I live. Why I am posting these private thoughts I have is my desire to help others not make the same mistakes. I struggle with the guilt of doing well while all around me fall. As many have pointed out, this applies to success in any business.

Peter your post reaffirms my thoughts about my situation. My life balance is wrong, and my perception of reality has gone. If you are not out in the big bad world trying to make a living it sort of passes you by.

This is a good debate and is interesting and worthwhile to see others points of view.

[LeTiss]

It's one of the reasons I admire Peter Webb so much

It's not his incredible trading returns that impresses me, it's his ability to retain a strong family life at the same time.

I have similar problems to mugsgame. For people who don't understand betting, or how exchanges work, they think I'm a layabout and should try getting a proper job. For the people who do understand it, they are very envious that I make decent money from home whilst watching sport all day long.

I've struggled to get the balance right too. You need an ability to operate in isolation when trading for a living, but there's a thin dividing line where you can psychologically start detaching yourself from friends.
I recently went out for a beer with an old friend, but found myself drifting away with thoughts about my need to compile some Tennis stats when I get in.
Last month, I turned down a hot date because I wanted to stay up all night trading on the Australian Open!

[Alpha322]

Well it's definitely a job in my eyes,

.

Cannot agree, we dont pay income Tax and employers dont see it as a job, they see it as Gambaling

[CaerMyrddin]

This has been one of the most interesting topics recently here at the forum. I'm glad to see it drifted from the original title

It's not his incredible trading returns that impresses me, it's his ability to retain a strong family life at the same time.

When I did the course about one year ago I was really impressed with another thing. We were in a very relaxed mood and when on a race a horse was stuck in the gate he became really 'sharp' and his eyes kind of became opener (I'm sorry, can I say that? - I hope not to be misunderstood). He became more alert immediately.

That ability to keep motivation always up is really hard to get. My admiration.

I recently went out for a beer with an old friend, but found myself drifting away with thoughts about my need to compile some Tennis stats when I get in

I guess that's just normal. When I had a 'proper' job that happened too, so...

Last month, I turned down a hot date because I wanted to stay up all night trading on the Australian Open

Now, that's just sad



Occasionally I try to explain to someone what I do and I kind of sorted it out. I tell them that I don't gamble, what I do is closer to being a casino owner rather than the guy that walks past the door to go for a gamble.

Well, it might not be he most respectful job in the world (being a casino owner) but at least I don't get comments like 'are you gambling?' or 'oh but someday you are gonna lose!'

And I avoid having to explain that every day I lose (I only had a single day fully green, but let's skip that part )

[freddy]

Well it's definitely a job in my eyes,

.

Cannot agree, we dont pay income Tax and employers dont see it as a job, they see it as Gambaling

That all depends on how you sell it to people,
You Don't have to even mention Betfair or sports,

then Being a trader becomes a good job

[Dobbin]

Hi Folks,

Just do what I do.

I tell them that I am a Freelance Statistical Analyst.



Dobbin

[freddy]

And to anyone who is slightly ashamed of trading on Betfair to make a living.

Then Why not Buy a old wreck of a house and do it up and call yourself a property developer.

or Buy some cars and call yourself a car dealer

sell a few things on ebay

you get the idea thats what drug dealers do put there profits into legitimate businesses.



admittedly there are issues if you ever want a mortgage or a loan from the bank, but that should offset by the fact you are making alot more money.