I thought this was the case at least I'm not imagining things!Euler wrote:You are correct according to our data.jimrobo wrote:I don;t have data to back that up.
saturday markets
Actually you read my mind, I was just thinking I am sure many would be happy what I can pull in. It's just when you have been operating net at a much higher level it's difficult to justify the same effort.
I've actually spent a lot more time on automating what I do and doing much deeper research into the markets and I've really enjoyed that. It's interesting what you uncover when you really dig aorund and challenge yourself to think hard.
I've actually spent a lot more time on automating what I do and doing much deeper research into the markets and I've really enjoyed that. It's interesting what you uncover when you really dig aorund and challenge yourself to think hard.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Yeah, I am not saying £77 isn't worth the effort for many, £77 is still £77 but it is all relative is it not?SpikeyBob wrote:... some of us would be happy to make £77 in a day, nevermind just one race.
So for example I and many others could turn up on a one race card day and make more than many people make in a 'normal' day or more than someone saying working at Tesco's does for a full shift but my time is worth more to me as I work long enough hours as it is. I wouldn't be surprised if Peter could turn up for a one race card day and make more than many make in a week, but for him is it worth the effort, I would have thought not as his time is limited and no doubt is better spent on other things, which is what I believe he usually does on such occasions.
In Peter's case he can make a good 4 figures in a day relatively easily going off past posts he has done. So the reason I said I was surprised he was up trading at 5am for £77 was that he said it really has to be worth his while to bother now. Obviously you don't know before the event how much you are going to make though, hence why I asked if he expected to make more or if the rest of the trading made it really worth the effort?
He can make a lot of money else where just as easily and at more sociable hours so is it worth the effort for him to be up at such hours. I guess it is a yes as he was up doing it.
As I said previously, I used to get up and do the Oz racing for a nice amount usually but these days it just isn't worth the effort, for me.
I hope people see the reason I asked the question, it wasn't meant in any untoward way, just an honest question.
Just a comeback on the "average punter has plenty of liquidity" quote.
We have debated it before. The amount of liquidity is connected to the fill rate. It's the fill rate that is the most important. If you offer up a price, it goes to the back of the queue. If the fill rate is slow, by the time you get your bet matched the rest of the market has moved on and you find yourself in a losing position.
It's the fill rates that are in decline. It will effect us all.
Re: Staying up to make £77
When you make a living trading, you work 7 days a week and 24 hours a day. This is because opportunities will always present themselves, you just have to be there to take advantage of them.
It isn't just a case of working 2 hours a day and "helping yourself". I think some of the blogs of the past have created this myth.
fact is it's a hard graft (not physically). You just have to grind it out.
We have debated it before. The amount of liquidity is connected to the fill rate. It's the fill rate that is the most important. If you offer up a price, it goes to the back of the queue. If the fill rate is slow, by the time you get your bet matched the rest of the market has moved on and you find yourself in a losing position.
It's the fill rates that are in decline. It will effect us all.
Re: Staying up to make £77
When you make a living trading, you work 7 days a week and 24 hours a day. This is because opportunities will always present themselves, you just have to be there to take advantage of them.
It isn't just a case of working 2 hours a day and "helping yourself". I think some of the blogs of the past have created this myth.
fact is it's a hard graft (not physically). You just have to grind it out.
I agree with this totallymugsgame wrote:Just a comeback on the "average punter has plenty of liquidity" quote.
We have debated it before. The amount of liquidity is connected to the fill rate. It's the fill rate that is the most important. If you offer up a price, it goes to the back of the queue. If the fill rate is slow, by the time you get your bet matched the rest of the market has moved on and you find yourself in a losing position.
It's the fill rates that are in decline. It will effect us all.
My earnings are down, maybe I've lost the edge I had, I don't know.
However, what I do know is the fill rates are in decline. I don't really trade horses, just sport, but it's become clear that a great deal of my bets take longer to get matched. As a full-time trader, this makes earning a living so much more difficult.
The liquidity is obviously key, but last week I made more money a footy match with just £9000 matched, than I did on a game with over £2M matched. The reason being the queues were so large on the big match, but they were being taken at a pedestrian pace
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steven1976
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:28 am
So if there are still and genuine punters who are loosing their money to the market and traders arent earning like previous, who is making the money lost to the pot? Could it be that betfair are some how copying and sneaking in front of succesful punters and taking the money out of the pot for themselves.
Probably, given what else they do.steven1976 wrote:So if there are still and genuine punters who are loosing their money to the market and traders arent earning like previous, who is making the money lost to the pot? Could it be that betfair are some how copying and sneaking in front of succesful punters and taking the money out of the pot for themselves.
74.5
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Mr Undercover
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:22 pm
Something fishy is going on. I've notice on a number of occasions that money is somehow getting ahead of me in the queue, so for example I place £100 in a queue with £1500 yet several thousand is matched before my £100. I had to do a double take the first few times I noticed this as I didn't quite believe what I was seeing and thought I'd made a mistake.
Has anyone else spotted this ?
Has anyone else spotted this ?
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BackHighLayLow
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:30 pm
One thing to be aware of is that Betfair matched volume is double stake value. So for instance £1.5k in front of you = 3k matched.Mr Undercover wrote:Something fishy is going on. I've notice on a number of occasions that money is somehow getting ahead of me in the queue, so for example I place £100 in a queue with £1500 yet several thousand is matched before my £100. I had to do a double take the first few times I noticed this as I didn't quite believe what I was seeing and thought I'd made a mistake.
Has anyone else spotted this ?
Another is cross matching. My understanding is the Betfair x-matcher bot will be matched in front of you if there is a slightly better price on the reverse book which it can skim from.
Mr UndercoverMr Undercover wrote:Something fishy is going on. I've notice on a number of occasions that money is somehow getting ahead of me in the queue, so for example I place £100 in a queue with £1500 yet several thousand is matched before my £100. I had to do a double take the first few times I noticed this as I didn't quite believe what I was seeing and thought I'd made a mistake.
Has anyone else spotted this ?
I mistrust betfair and wouldn't believe a word they say given the things that they have done lately.A friend of mine noticed that what you report was happening to him far too frequently for it to be coincidence.Another thing he noticed was that,sometimes,when he placed a bet,the money that he was trying to get matched up against 'disappeared'. Again, this happened far too frequently for it to be coincidence.
That said,there is little to be gained by jumping on the conspiracy theory band wagon.You need to check out the facts.
If you are not a very successful gambler(no disrespect intended) then that's one thing,if you are then that's entirely different.
Assuming that you are successful, then you need to read BackHighLayLow's post and eliminate that possibility.If it keeps happening to you then you need to collect some stats and determine if it can be put down to some random unknown event or whether something more sinister is happening such as someone copying your bets and putting them into the queue ahead of you.If this happening,you have two choices:leave betfair or fight back.If you choose to fight back,here's one thing that you could try:flip a coin.If it comes down heads,make a normal bet next.If it comes down tails,place a false bet next,then wait for the bets in front of your false bet to start matching and then cancel your bet.That way,if someone is copying your bets,they end up being stung because they have no idea whether it's a false bet or not.
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