My apologies for offending you, by insinuating you were chasing £200 per day. I was making a sweeping statement based on a number of posters we've had on here over the years, who give up too early
In my early days, I had some massive hits. I lost £1900 on 1 match once - Arsenal vs West Ham New Years Day 2008. Fortunately, I was working in sales at the time, so I knew my bonus' would recoup it, but as a full-time trader that would have crucified me
My point is, I have learned more about how to trade from having red screens, than green. If you can accept that having losers is part of your trading education, then you will go far.
The secret of course, is not to make the same mistakes again. Your loss of £48 is a classic example of a mistake many make, including myself in days gone by - the frustration of having a bad trade led you to pile 'all in' on a gamble to win it back. You will never succeed in trading with that philosophy - that's a sweeping statement I will stand by
Anyway, once again I apologise if I pissed you off, but don't give up just yet.
Well that's me done on Betfair and Bet Angel.
If you cant win with a small bank, a really big bank isn't going to help you.
For those who hadn't seen my story, I won 35k on the lottery last year, quit work and travelled around Europe for a couple of months last year, doing nothing but sight-seeing and trading.
Imagine that: having all the free-time in the world and a 35k trading bank to play around with!
It didn't help. Within the space of a couple of months, I'd blown 10k on UK horse racing trading.
The poker notion of 'tilting' is very applicable to trading. You can have one or two bad beats, and then you get frustrated and do silly things to try to get the losses back, like putting on huge stakes or going in-play, and then inevitably you lose even more. Then you go 'on tilt', trying to chase the losses even more and doing even more silly things; a terrifying downward spiral, like a plane going into a death-spin.
Beware newbie traders: It can all turn to custard with terrifying rapidity!
For those who hadn't seen my story, I won 35k on the lottery last year, quit work and travelled around Europe for a couple of months last year, doing nothing but sight-seeing and trading.
Imagine that: having all the free-time in the world and a 35k trading bank to play around with!
It didn't help. Within the space of a couple of months, I'd blown 10k on UK horse racing trading.
The poker notion of 'tilting' is very applicable to trading. You can have one or two bad beats, and then you get frustrated and do silly things to try to get the losses back, like putting on huge stakes or going in-play, and then inevitably you lose even more. Then you go 'on tilt', trying to chase the losses even more and doing even more silly things; a terrifying downward spiral, like a plane going into a death-spin.
Beware newbie traders: It can all turn to custard with terrifying rapidity!
Zenyatta makes a good point....if you can't make profits (even if they are tiny) with £100, you'll never make profits with £5000. The bigger the bank, the more difficult it is to get fully matched on both sides of the book, your palms are sweatier and your heart races faster due to the large amounts involved, this all leads to different decision making.
My advice to new traders, is try to forget about profits initially. Simply concentrate on understanding markets & understanding how prices move & why.
I started to turn a corner when using level tick sizes, as this meant all my trading was focused upon achieving a positive balance of tick movements. Once I was able to achieve days of 2+ ticks in my favour, I knew the profits would come with it. This increased my confidence and trading without confidence is not a recipe for success.
My advice to new traders, is try to forget about profits initially. Simply concentrate on understanding markets & understanding how prices move & why.
I started to turn a corner when using level tick sizes, as this meant all my trading was focused upon achieving a positive balance of tick movements. Once I was able to achieve days of 2+ ticks in my favour, I knew the profits would come with it. This increased my confidence and trading without confidence is not a recipe for success.
Although, I must say that trading with those huge stakes was a really big eye-opener for me!LeTiss 4pm wrote:Zenyatta makes a good point....if you can't make profits (even if they are tiny) with £100, you'll never make profits with £5000. The bigger the bank, the more difficult it is to get fully matched on both sides of the book, your palms are sweatier and your heart races faster due to the large amounts involved, this all leads to different decision making.
My advice to new traders, is try to forget about profits initially. Simply concentrate on understanding markets & understanding how prices move & why.
I started to turn a corner when using level tick sizes, as this meant all my trading was focused upon achieving a positive balance of tick movements. Once I was able to achieve days of 2+ ticks in my favour, I knew the profits would come with it. This increased my confidence and trading without confidence is not a recipe for success.
For one thing, people come at you when you're putting on big stakes (they will try to attack your position). For another, its harder to get in and out, big stakes will start to change the prices. But you can definitely manipulate prices with big stakes. I was amazed at how easily I could start and stop moves at will. It really proved to me that there are a lot of sheep in the markets, basically just blindly following prices around.
My downfall was indeed lack of confidence. If you start following short-term prices around rather than making your own judgements independent of these price movements, you're on a fast track to the poor-house.
I agree with an element of that, however you need to know what you're doing. Anybody with a lack of trading skills or knowledge, who simply tries to blindly manipulate markets with large sums, will eventually have their underpants ripped offZenyatta wrote: Although, I must say that trading with those huge stakes was a really big eye-opener for me!
For one thing, people come at you when you're putting on big stakes (they will try to attack your position). For another, its harder to get in and out, big stakes will start to change the prices. But you can definitely manipulate prices with big stakes. I was amazed at how easily I could start and stop moves at will. It really proved to me that there are a lot of sheep in the markets, basically just blindly following prices around.
Cheers for all the feed back guys. Yeah I can understand if you're using huge stakes you would have a problem getting matched. It just seemed like the last week everytime I backed or laid a horse thousands of pounds would come in below or above it the exact second I was matched. If it happened once or twice i'd be like fair enough but for it to be happening almost all the time I must of completely lost any skill I did pick up.
I always saw it as give it two years of practising and try and learn as many skills as possible. I've not had many opportunities to get on with other things in my life so I thought this was something I could learn without the interference of other people (like idiots in the workplace
)
The £48 bet was uncharacteristic of me, I wanted to be a trader not a gambler and that was a retarded move. Just losing £52 that i've worked so hard to get back after multiple knock backs seemed like I wasn't getting out the effort I was putting in.
I didn't expect it to be easy like most of these idiots I see going i'm gonna earn this and that, chasing the price round not having a clue what there doing and driven by there own greed and Materialism. It's kind of like the sheep that back horses on a so called experts opinion rather than going and researching what weight the horse has won at and on what type of ground. They don't want to put the time and effort in.
Anyway at the moment I think there's about as much chance of me becoming a successful trader as there is of us getting hit by a meteor today . I was wondering as well if you guys always use the stop loss and at how many ticks? Cheers.
I always saw it as give it two years of practising and try and learn as many skills as possible. I've not had many opportunities to get on with other things in my life so I thought this was something I could learn without the interference of other people (like idiots in the workplace
)The £48 bet was uncharacteristic of me, I wanted to be a trader not a gambler and that was a retarded move. Just losing £52 that i've worked so hard to get back after multiple knock backs seemed like I wasn't getting out the effort I was putting in.
I didn't expect it to be easy like most of these idiots I see going i'm gonna earn this and that, chasing the price round not having a clue what there doing and driven by there own greed and Materialism. It's kind of like the sheep that back horses on a so called experts opinion rather than going and researching what weight the horse has won at and on what type of ground. They don't want to put the time and effort in.
Anyway at the moment I think there's about as much chance of me becoming a successful trader as there is of us getting hit by a meteor today
. I was wondering as well if you guys always use the stop loss and at how many ticks? Cheers.avfc. I think you are wrongly beating yourself up and I think you have got more of an idea about trading than you think. Much more than me I hasten to add. You still havent lost your initial £100 entirely but will have learnt so much. Why quit now when you are obviously working things out and havent had a big loss. I personally have lost near £10k since starting a year or so ago and initially took a lot of crap from the more experienced traders coz my opening comment was is it possible to earn £300 a day. Yes I am one of them, but to me I need a goal or I do not function. I think that comes from working to a business plan in my present business and ensuring that targets are met. Nowadays my losses are less pro rata but they still hurt just as much. Like you I will have a good run and then a loss that knocks me back and also like you I will sometimes enter a trade and the market about turns almost instantaneous. However I now understand a bit more why.
I think that you may be ahead of me in knowledge as I can only spend about 5hours a week on it which is not good for studying. I think you should keep going as your losses are not that great and you seem to get back (excluding the blood rush bet)and wish you every luck. If you do figure it out let me know your secret. CALM DOWN LETISS AND MUGS - ONLY JOKING LOL!
I think that you may be ahead of me in knowledge as I can only spend about 5hours a week on it which is not good for studying. I think you should keep going as your losses are not that great and you seem to get back (excluding the blood rush bet)and wish you every luck. If you do figure it out let me know your secret. CALM DOWN LETISS AND MUGS - ONLY JOKING LOL!
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7961
Post before the last one on the page.
Jeff
Post before the last one on the page.
Jeff
rogerlisa wrote: Jeff where did you get Letiss's comment from?
It was in response to the following:
'intelligence and experience will not see you through to profits on betfair or trading as it is now.
without the big bank you will lose.'
I agree with LeTiss's disagreement (although I wouldn't express my disagreement using quite the words he did!).
If you have an edge and a small bank, it stands to reason that in time you'll compound it into a big bank with discipline and sensible staking. And if you have no edge, you'll lose all your money with a big bank.
Unless your forte is spoofing the market with large sums of money (not a risk-free strategy), I don't see how having a big bank to start off with is any advantage.
Jeff
'intelligence and experience will not see you through to profits on betfair or trading as it is now.
without the big bank you will lose.'
I agree with LeTiss's disagreement (although I wouldn't express my disagreement using quite the words he did!
).If you have an edge and a small bank, it stands to reason that in time you'll compound it into a big bank with discipline and sensible staking. And if you have no edge, you'll lose all your money with a big bank.
Unless your forte is spoofing the market with large sums of money (not a risk-free strategy), I don't see how having a big bank to start off with is any advantage.
Jeff
Yes I agree entirely. I started with a big bank and knew absolutely nothing. My trades had big rewards but then were followed by big losses. Its all 'relative' really depending on your personnal circumstances, but I feel that Av shows much better self restraint than I ever did and I feel he will make it to far exceed myself. Where he is similar to me is he wants to learn and change his current life and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I knew jack s**t about gambling, trading or sport (other than Motorcycles)but am learning.
Hi AVFC28, like you I am having a rest from trading after having a great week until the end. My bank of 20 increased nicely to 120 then suddenly disappeared. I am not giving up because I know why it went...after a trade went the wrong way, I let it go in play instead of scratching it and that was that! Even after all I have read about not letting it go in play and the advice I 've been given, I still did it. A break will be good and a chance to think how to do it better next time. As the weather is improving I can get some gardening done instead! Hope you have a good break aswell.
