Would you only ever offer Andy? I see people like mugs, who take longer term positions, take money and sit and wait?andyfuller wrote:I would assume Peter is talking about big races, such as the feature race or a big competitive handicap.
There were some interesting/odd occurrences today on Betdaq where 'the market' was taking some odd prices at times.
It created some good opportunities but also caught me a couple of times which took the shine off what was shaping up to be an excellent day.
The last at Beverley saw virtually nothing matched on the drifting favourite, I couldn't lay it no matter what which still shows there is a lack of money at times, but things feel much better than they did a year ago on there.
Betdaq volume monitoring thread
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steven1976
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andyfuller
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I would say I offer a price 95-99% of the time. If you take a price you are always a tick down from the outset.
I suspect most traders offer mainly. Pretty sure PW is similar in his approach.
But when you want to get on a fast moving move you will usually have to take a price or miss it - as happened to me in that race.
I suspect most traders offer mainly. Pretty sure PW is similar in his approach.
But when you want to get on a fast moving move you will usually have to take a price or miss it - as happened to me in that race.
I explain in a meeting once why people don't move from Betfair and it also explains why this wouldn't work. Imagine a bunch of guys robbed a bank and there is a big pile of cash on the table. Everybody is looking at the cash when somebody says, OK guys lets come back tomorrow and sort out how we share it out.herbie wrote:Maybe a way to increase Betdaqs volume is for the Betfair Software vendors (Such as Bet Angel and others) to close down their Betfair trading software, leaving only Betdaq software available. Do this for just a week then see the difference.
Nobody leaves the room......
That is a long term net negative strategy.steven1976 wrote:Would you only ever offer Andy? I see people like mugs, who take longer term positions, take money and sit and wait?
You also have this problem with long term positions that it is extremely difficult to exit a position in an early market as there is little or no liquidity.
I've tried everything and taking a price a long way out was one of the most negative strategies I came across.
I can't add much to that as that is more or less spot on.andyfuller wrote:I would say I offer a price 95-99% of the time. If you take a price you are always a tick down from the outset.
I suspect most traders offer mainly. Pretty sure PW is similar in his approach.
But when you want to get on a fast moving move you will usually have to take a price or miss it - as happened to me in that race.
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steven1976
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I also offer on horses, but was curious if some people were changing their approach with the talk of scalping getting harder.
I imagine that any time you offer money to a market, it can be identified as a traders money in this day and age and therefore identify someone who would want to sell out in the future, compared to someone who takes money on offer which could be harder to identify if it is real or traders money.
I was curious if people were moving to longer term positions and ensuring they get filled if they believe the price is value but obviously not as the above replies suggest.
Cheers
I imagine that any time you offer money to a market, it can be identified as a traders money in this day and age and therefore identify someone who would want to sell out in the future, compared to someone who takes money on offer which could be harder to identify if it is real or traders money.
I was curious if people were moving to longer term positions and ensuring they get filled if they believe the price is value but obviously not as the above replies suggest.
Cheers
If i think the market has a good chance of moving i'l offer and take at the same time, theres a slight disadvantage if the market moves against you but it stops you losing out on quick movements, i'm not sure if there is an advantage in doing so but it stops me from getting pissed off when i miss an good trade.steven1976 wrote:I also offer on horses, but was curious if some people were changing their approach with the talk of scalping getting harder.
I imagine that any time you offer money to a market, it can be identified as a traders money in this day and age and therefore identify someone who would want to sell out in the future, compared to someone who takes money on offer which could be harder to identify if it is real or traders money.
I was curious if people were moving to longer term positions and ensuring they get filled if they believe the price is value but obviously not as the above replies suggest.
Cheers
Before the off they are OK, but inplay is a bit sparse.
I have a theory about that.
I reckon by far the biggest winners on Betfair inplay are the clock beaters. So by imposing a harsh PC on them and ensure collection Betfair get their share of the winnings from losers.
If they made inplay trading fair again they wouldn't get that money, but moreover others could copy their inplay prices and make their markets liquid. As it is, true liquidity on places like Betdaq get picked off by clock beaters because of the policy of Betfair, thereby denying a credible alternative.
Effectively Betfair's business policy is probably set to encourage clock beaters.
I have a theory about that.
I reckon by far the biggest winners on Betfair inplay are the clock beaters. So by imposing a harsh PC on them and ensure collection Betfair get their share of the winnings from losers.
If they made inplay trading fair again they wouldn't get that money, but moreover others could copy their inplay prices and make their markets liquid. As it is, true liquidity on places like Betdaq get picked off by clock beaters because of the policy of Betfair, thereby denying a credible alternative.
Effectively Betfair's business policy is probably set to encourage clock beaters.
It's a struggle mateKai wrote:A bit off-topic but have footy and tennis ever been even remotely liquid over there at Betdaq?
A good example is the Ashes 2nd Test - currently £166k matched at Betdaq, £7.5Million at Betfair
I dip my toes in the water, but it's impossible to push the same money through as I do on BF, without leaving myself totally exposed
Cheers for the replies.
Yeah the Ashes example says it all really, I glance at the liquidity over at Betdaq from time to time and it's sad to see how football and tennis markets are so far behind horse racing which has evolved nicely over the years, with mostly genuine money.
Your theory does make sense Peter, it probably sums up the whole betting exchange industry (which is basically just BF), providing of course that the biggest winners indeed pay 60% PC to Betfair and are not somehow avoiding it. So what would you propose Betfair do to make inplay trading fair and level the playing field for everybody involved?
IMO increasing the inplay delay can only go so far, as a concrete solution against those who regularly beat the clock, like courtsiders on tennis or players like Rebelo on football (from what I gathered from the Portuguese trading scene). As things stand, "true liquidity" on inplay markets without something like PC for biggest winners may as well be just a pipe dream for now and not a good business model for anyone looking to compete with Betfair.
Yeah the Ashes example says it all really, I glance at the liquidity over at Betdaq from time to time and it's sad to see how football and tennis markets are so far behind horse racing which has evolved nicely over the years, with mostly genuine money.
Your theory does make sense Peter, it probably sums up the whole betting exchange industry (which is basically just BF), providing of course that the biggest winners indeed pay 60% PC to Betfair and are not somehow avoiding it. So what would you propose Betfair do to make inplay trading fair and level the playing field for everybody involved?
IMO increasing the inplay delay can only go so far, as a concrete solution against those who regularly beat the clock, like courtsiders on tennis or players like Rebelo on football (from what I gathered from the Portuguese trading scene). As things stand, "true liquidity" on inplay markets without something like PC for biggest winners may as well be just a pipe dream for now and not a good business model for anyone looking to compete with Betfair.