Today's Horse Racing
I dont like to be paranoid but this kind of behavior definitely is more dominant this week, seems to be killing liquidity if anything.... surely can't be betfair as they'd want to increase liquidity if nothing else?!
As is life and manipulation will be to a degree always but if there is this extreme level manipulation going on its pretty unethical and maybe betfair would look into it... presuming its not them 'setting' the markets as you say H.
How you finding it since going back to work JR?
As is life and manipulation will be to a degree always but if there is this extreme level manipulation going on its pretty unethical and maybe betfair would look into it... presuming its not them 'setting' the markets as you say H.
How you finding it since going back to work JR?
Tbh I think it was ok yesterday Chuck, can't comment on the days before that as I wasn't trading.chuck536 wrote:I dont like to be paranoid but this kind of behavior definitely is more dominant this week
It's not just days it's done on though. Sometimes it seems to just get flipped on at will. For instance last November when racing started earlier than now... many days the markets were trading 'straight' to begin with for the first few races and then when the clock strikes 2PM (UK time) suddenly everything goes haywire for the rest of the day and manual traders struggle to make any money, as if something just woke up and starts dominating every runner
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steven1976
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The media will have a field day if they get wind of that.Euler wrote:I've spoken to the senior figures at Betfair about blatant manipulation but they gave me the distinct impression they are not interested in addressing it.
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steven1976
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I guess so. Maybe I could tell my story!Euler wrote:It's a gambling market though, nobody cares in my experience. The press are only interested in stories where people have lost bucketloads by gambling or spent somebodies else money etc.
Fairly indifferent. Strangely though Saturdays I've found to be less profitable than some evening meetings. If I feel something is pushing against positions I'll just turn off and and something different. I'm actually thinking about dropping Saturdays completely at the moment.chuck536 wrote: How you finding it since going back to work JR?
hgodden wrote:Markets have felt decidedly 'set' to be 'anti-trader' most of today.
What I'd like to know is if all this batting prices around, pushing against trader's orders, hogging all the prices across the book and stopping us closing our orders is a neccessary self defence mechanism from the individual making the markets, or if it's just a systematic targeting of what are likely to be trader's orders.
Really glad I gave up on the trading and I now just want to now concentrate on gambling. The UK horse racing (especially the low grade stuff) was just way too dodgy for me, trading-wise.
With gambling, I'm just looking to grab value and hold. Sure, I will sometimes get it wrong, and take big losses, but I know I will get it right slightly more often and my big wins will outweigh my big losses over the long-run.
The great thing about gambling is that I'm immune to manipulation: The manipulators can push against my positions until they're blue in the face, I'm never reacting or stopping-out, so it will do them no good whatsoever.
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steven1976
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I'd personally say all across the book. I don't believe a lot of what we see matching is actually happening! As long as they have control of the front 3 or 4 positions there are not many people who can take them on. Chuck in matching their own money they can sit slowly matching a position or matching it a quicker rate to benefit their positions?hgodden wrote:I'd like to know if it's a neccessary part of mass scale market making, or just a way of taking money off of traders.