Champions league

[SilentDave]

Panned out pretty much as I expected at Old Trafford. Has been a mixed bag from United this season with a seemingly cavalier approach in the CL at home whilst more cautious in the PL.
Benfica now unbeaten in 21 - still think United were too short pre KO, you could lay them at 1.58 last night.

[enzabella2009]

Hi Jeff,
Sometimes have a look the other side of the coin. Napoli played a perfect tactical game. Manchester city despite the loss was quite impressive. Both teams have little experience in Europe, but Napoli have interpreted both games ( Away and Home) slightly better then Manchester city and won.

Shame they couldn't play like that against Napoli!

Everyone messes up. It's how you deal with it that matters - whether you let it beat you psychologically, or whether you come back fighting. And Fergie has shown year after year that, despite having poor games, he can keep on winning trophies.

It would be very funny if we win the Premiership despite them scoring those 6 against us!

Jeff

Man City scored 6!!!!

When I backed Man utd @ 1.69 I thought It was a very good price to take. Benfica is in a good form but 21 matches unbeaten, which most of the games have been played in the portoguese league, is not the reason behind the late drifting of the odds. Wayne Rooney have caused the uncertainty of the market. We can also argue the fact that the market have predicted the 3rd minute own goal which stunned few backers but opened some nice opportunitys on the lay side. Manchester United is the 3rd world most supported team (barcelona 1st Real Madrid 2nd updated in 2010), from 1.58 to 1.78 is a big drift, perhaps even Manchester united supporters were laying the home team..

Panned out pretty much as I expected at Old Trafford. Has been a mixed bag from United this season with a seemingly cavalier approach in the CL at home whilst more cautious in the PL.
Benfica now unbeaten in 21 - still think United were too short pre KO, you could lay them at 1.58 last night.

[Iron]

Sometimes have a look the other side of the coin. Napoli played a perfect tactical game. Manchester city despite the loss was quite impressive.

I didn't see the game, but on recent form you'd have expected City to win easily.

City are top of the Premiership having won (I think) 11 out of their first 12 games - an extremely impressive result by any standards.

Napoli are seventh in Serie A.

City might have little experience in Europe, but if their way of playing is good enough to beat get 11 wins and 1 draw in what in the strongest league in the world (yes, yes, I know you disagree! ), they should be good enough to beat Napoli.

I can only assume that they let the pressure of playing in the Champions League get to them, or that their recent Premiership results made them complacent.

It's interesting that Mancini is talking down City's qualification chances - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15848783.stm. At first I thought that was negative thinking, but maybe he's trying to take some of the pressure off his players, so they just relax and play their best football...

Jeff

[Euler]

City have looked out of place in the CL for some reason, but then United didn't look great either. I think Benfica did a good tactical job last night. Not sure I think any of the other English teams are in a better position TBH.

[enzabella2009]

Sometimes have a look the other side of the coin. Napoli played a perfect tactical game. Manchester city despite the loss was quite impressive.

I didn't see the game, but on recent form you'd have expected City to win easily.

City are top of the Premiership having won (I think) 11 out of their first 12 games - an extremely impressive result by any standards.

Napoli are seventh in Serie A.

City might have little experience in Europe, but if their way of playing is good enough to beat get 11 wins and 1 draw in what in the strongest league in the world (yes, yes, I know you disagree! ), they should be good enough to beat Napoli.

I can only assume that they let the pressure of playing in the Champions League get to them, or that their recent Premiership results made them complacent.

It's interesting that Mancini is talking down City's qualification chances - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15848783.stm. At first I thought that was negative thinking, but maybe he's trying to take some of the pressure off his players, so they just relax and play their best football...

Jeff

The problem here is that English missing humility. The premier ship it is in obvious decline. Liverpool does not scare anyone anymore so do Chelsea. If any top European `s team meet arsenal as an opponent they might be considered lucky, not to mention manchester united, If wayne rooney missed the game the odds fly as fires works against Man utd. Manchester City is the only team that will not decline at least until they slam the financial fair play. Sometime ago English teams were the black beast of all the European teams. Now it is changing because history recicle it self. With a bit of humility you guys might be able to understand the reality and not be upset at the lack of future success. Italian clubs in the 90s were the best in the world, we have eccepted the decline of the golden age and we take every wins like a bonus. The important thing is to have at least one club that throw the years still managing to take trophies back home, not to mention the world cup but always with a big sense of humility. If you had some spare time watch Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayer munich playing then you understand why at least the 1st 2 have little challange at home and in europe. The current best english club will lose badly against the clubs I have just mentioned.

[Iron]

Hi Enzabella

It's hard to compare leagues, but as the Premiership is the richest league in the world, we can outbid teams in other leagues for players. That said, for reasons of language, climate and culture, some top players may prefer the Continent.

I disagree about Real Madrid, Barca and Bayern though. Barca are possibly the best team in the world at the moment (although the City that beat Man U the other week could probably give them a run for their money!). But the likes of Chelsea and Man U have done at least as well in the CL in recent years as Real Madrid and Bayern Munich.

Man U won the CL in 2008 and were runners up in 2008 & 11. Chelsea were runners up in 2008. Real Madrid have neither been winners nor runners up since 2002. And although Bayern were runners up in 2010, prior to that they hadn't been runners up since 2001.

And Chelsea have enormous talent in their squad. But due to problems off the pitch, they don't play to potential.

Jeff

[enzabella2009]

Ac Milan won in 2007 and Inter Milan won in 2010 despite claims for almost a decade that Italian football is dead. The seria A spending is possibly 100 times less then the premier league but, still successfully achieve a slightly higher rate of success compare to the premier league clubs. The premier league clubs has to be considered in constant failure if we put into count the money spending to win in europe so did Real madrid in the past years. Sometime ago you had 4 shots to win it, with Wenger, Benitez, Mourinho and Ferguson, higher average of professionality and higher average of spending. At the current form you probably have 1 shot. Mourinho usually need 2 years to bring the team in the top level. He did it with inter milan and he is doing it with real madrid, having players that are miles better then inter milan players. I am not questioning Chelsea and Man utd recent success, it was delightfull to watch those teams playing but, it is changing now. I understand the denial point of view. You speak from a supporter point of view. Barcelona is not just the best team in the world, but is one of the best of all football history. Real Madrid has considerably improved compare to the last season so did bayer munich compare to the 2010 finalist.
Manchester city played the same game as usuall but lost. Don`t assume only because they break the premier league record they win easily against european opponents. They were out played by bayer munich, went head-to-head agaist Napoli not once but twice with the same current form and won against Villareal on the 92` minute of the game. Here the highlights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--RoLeMF ... 1A36F51FF3


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6rp1hB4ZE8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh-21MIiaZ0

Hi Enzabella

It's hard to compare leagues, but as the Premiership is the richest league in the world, we can outbid teams in other leagues for players. That said, for reasons of language, climate and culture, some top players may prefer the Continent.

I disagree about Real Madrid, Barca and Bayern though. Barca are possibly the best team in the world at the moment (although the City that beat Man U the other week could probably give them a run for their money!). But the likes of Chelsea and Man U have done at least as well in the CL in recent years as Real Madrid and Bayern Munich.

Man U won the CL in 2008 and were runners up in 2008 & 11. Chelsea were runners up in 2008. Real Madrid have neither been winners nor runners up since 2002. And although Bayern were runners up in 2010, prior to that they hadn't been runners up since 2001.

And Chelsea have enormous talent in their squad. But due to problems off the pitch, they don't play to potential.

Jeff

[CaerMyrddin]

This is really interesting reading.

I share Enzabella's opinion. If you think about the amount of money you guys are spending in football, the results should be way better. This season Braga is playing Birmingham in the Europa League and the diference in budgets would make you think that it wouldn't be an even contest. Well, it isn't but not in the way you would think in the first place!

I also remember Everton trying to sign Moutinho. He would be making more money than any portuguese side would pay him, but Everton wouldn't be fighting to be champion in Portugal. Think about it...

It's not like you can throw money at things and make them work. Imho, english football is an underperformer, due to the money available, just like portuguese football is an outstanding overperformer. Maybe too much money makes the players spoiled, I don't know

[Iron]

The richer a club is, the more the agents are likely to demand for the player's services. The price for a particular player might be (say) 17 million pounds if you're Chelsea, 12 million pounds if you're Aston Villa and 9 million pounds if you're Benfica! So whilst English teams have, overall, more money to spend, they also get less value per pound spent, and therefore their greater wealth may not translate into a stronger side.

That said, I can see City becoming the next Barcelona. They have so much money that they can buy almost any player they want, and unlike Chelsea, they work well as a team.

Jeff

[CaerMyrddin]

You can't become the next Barcelona just buying players, Jeff

[Iron]

No, but having a bunch of world class players helps! As Fergie put it in his autobiography, talent isn't democratic. Some people have more than others, and you need to be able to pay for that talent if you want to win trophies!

But I agree it's about more than the players. That's why Chelsea haven't fulfilled their potential IMHO. Stuff going on off the pitch has affected their performance on the pitch.

Jeff

You can't become the next Barcelona just buying players, Jeff

[enzabella2009]

German football is in the same way outstanding . Already from next year `s according to points earned Germany should have 4 teams in the Champions League, Italy only 3. France is gearing up in the same way. There are financial resources available which will be managed better then english clubs did in the past years. Watch out for PSG in couple years. Di benedetto, an American Billionaire, aquired AC Roma this season and promised to rebuild the team to make it one of the best in Europe. They all starting to put down projects for new owned stadiums. Many of these projects will probably fail, but looking at the some outstanding performances of some european clubs, I am sure many will also make a good use of the new financial resources.

This is really interesting reading.

I share Enzabella's opinion. If you think about the amount of money you guys are spending in football, the results should be way better. This season Braga is playing Birmingham in the Europa League and the diference in budgets would make you think that it wouldn't be an even contest. Well, it isn't but not in the way you would think in the first place!

I also remember Everton trying to sign Moutinho. He would be making more money than any portuguese side would pay him, but Everton wouldn't be fighting to be champion in Portugal. Think about it...

It's not like you can throw money at things and make them work. Imho, english football is an underperformer, due to the money available, just like portuguese football is an outstanding overperformer. Maybe too much money makes the players spoiled, I don't know

[enzabella2009]

The English and Spanish Tax sistem is a massive and one of the biggest help for the cause of buying whoever they like.

The richer a club is, the more the agents are likely to demand for the player's services. The price for a particular player might be (say) 17 million pounds if you're Chelsea, 12 million pounds if you're Aston Villa and 9 million pounds if you're Benfica! So whilst English teams have, overall, more money to spend, they also get less value per pound spent, and therefore their greater wealth may not translate into a stronger side.

That said, I can see City becoming the next Barcelona. They have so much money that they can buy almost any player they want, and unlike Chelsea, they work well as a team.

Jeff

[Iron]

There are financial resources available which will be managed better then english clubs did in the past years.

That's a bit of a generalisation!

How have English clubs mismanaged their financial resources?

Jeff

[Iron]

Possibly, but isn't the higher taxation offset by the fact that top players generally earn more here than in Spain?

Jeff

The English and Spanish Tax sistem is a massive and one of the biggest help for the cause of buying whoever they like.