Why do traders not make courses/teach it?

[Kai]

betfair popular in portugal, didnt know there were many pros there?

Yeah, that's why I'm often fascinated by them. The UK trading scene seems smaller in comparison but that would be very strange, idk the numbers obviously.

Rebelo has done wonders to promote sports trading and betting over there, it helped that he started studying the stock markets at the age of 17. Talk about an early start It helped to appeal to all the younger crowds at least. In recent years trading exploded in Brazil as well since they speak the same language. They have their fair share of scammers, some operating on a big corporate scale, but most of the bigger guys seem genuine top class traders and nice guys too. They seem to have a real sense of camaraderie amongst them, not really something you see often.

But I didn't find them myself, this forum told me about them 5 years ago. I think with my 1st post on the forum I made a thread about how I started paying PC and started doing well, wanting to keep learning about football trading but was frustrated with the rigid approaches of UK traders etc. I remember Peter and others replying and singing the praises of the Portuguese guys and recommending to check them out so I did. Always felt a bit indebted after that tbh.

[ShaunWhite]

If you want to be a manual trader then information is almost too plentiful but if you want to be a quant then you're on your Tod. It would be easy to discover trading and then think the only way to do it was how the celebrity traders do it, predominantly manual/discretionary. I suppose it's easier to sell the dream with a low barrier to entry rather than a method that takes months of effort before you even try to make some money. And being cynical it's easier to blame the student when they fail rather than the teacher because it's something slightly fuzzy rather than the black and white world of analysis and maths. Imo the figure of a 95% failure rate is because so many people only ever consider one way, the celebrity trader way, of trading rather than finding one of many methods that actually suits their skills and personality.

(little US racing reference there trivia fans ... 'Tod' was Tod Sloan who was a famous jockey but died penniless and alone, cockney rhyming slang, Tod Sloan, own)

[alexmr2]

A combination of all of the above? Including a lot of other reasons that I wouldn't feel comfortable discussing. Plus there's some truth in the above comments as well

For me it feels like the opposite, like there's too many courses. Nearly all of the good traders that I know are selling something, one way or another, but most of them are coming from Portugal so they are not known to the English-speaking trading communities besides people like Rebelo. They've had dozens of courses that I ran into over the years on most sports and I have to admit that overall the quality is much higher than their English counterparts, of which there maybe aren't too many.

Speaking of English trading communities there's basically only this one with its 25k registered members but really not too many active ones. In comparison the Portuguese equivalent of this forum would probably be Academia das Apostas with their 191k members, which is being ran by Rebelo and co. That's quite a difference in numbers. Whenever over the past 5 years I did at least my basic research on another trader and their work there's barely anyone from UK that I could find, while in Portugal there seems to be an endless stream of traders and I had to prioritize, so the numbers check out, even on racing alone (although they much more prefer the inplay markets). A part of the issue is that the Portuguese guys can benefit and learn something from the English since most speak the language, but the English can't really learn anything from the Portuguese because of the language barrier. What I also found interesting is the big average age difference between the two groups.

That's interesting to hear that BF trading seems to be more popular in Portugal and have a younger crowd. I wish I had discovered trading when I was younger but I don't think I would have had the patience or motivation to stick at it for more than a year at that age. I think that some experience working was enough to give me a push to try and take the trading route serious as opposed to the alternative competitive job market and demoralising prospects.

I have noticed that in the UK over the last couple of years that young people seem to be drawn to betting tipsters or fake financial traders on social media, who are making money from the commission and/or overpriced repackaged information courses they are selling. I am surprised they still get away with this but the government probably benefits from it so has not cracked down on it yet.

As there seems to be a trend of each younger generation becoming more entitled, maybe we will see less new traders in the future? On the other side there has been a huge growth in matched betting where many people are learning how to play the game, but obviously this is far from making it in the trading game, which has to be 100x more difficult. I don't know anything about football trading as I've only ever focused on pre-race, but it is a huge commitment where even nearly 18 months of practising and learning almost every day with some good help has still not saw me reach consistent profitability

[spreadbetting]

.... I wish I had discovered trading when I was younger but I don't think I would have had the patience or motivation to stick at it for more than a year at that age. I think that some experience working was enough to give me a push to try and take the trading route serious as opposed to the alternative competitive job market and demoralising prospects.

I'm glad I never made a living from it at an early age. Had much more fun and and active social life working. Plenty of things money can't buy.

[ShaunWhite]

.... I wish I had discovered trading when I was younger .

I'm glad I never made a living from it at an early age. Had much more fun and and active social life working. Plenty of things money can't buy.

+1 Being sat in your bedroom on your own for 50hrs a week isn't the ideal way to spend your best years. And do you take a 20/1 shot that you'll be making good money by aged 30 or see that as 1/20 shot that you'll wake up when you're 30 having failed and realise you've missed the boat. Early money can kickstart your life but early hardship and isolation can take a lifetime to recover from.

[alexmr2]

I'm glad I never made a living from it at an early age. Had much more fun and and active social life working. Plenty of things money can't buy.

Very good point and something I have often thought about. Although I didn't have a very long working life before trading, I had some jobs which I enjoyed (tended to be more practical ones) and others which I did not enjoy so much (office based ones)

[Derek27]

I wish I could have started trading when I was younger. Never had much of a social life anyway.

[ruthlessimon]

+1 Being sat in your bedroom on your own for 50hrs a week isn't the ideal way to spend your best years. And do you take a 20/1 shot that you'll be making good money by aged 30

That doesn't just apply to trading

The people who have the best time @ uni, come out with a shit degree (generally) & are -£60K for the privilege

[spreadbetting]

The one's wth the crappy degrees probably won't ever pay back that £60K, Simon, so at least they'll have had 3 years of fun at the taxpayers expense like most of us oldies had. Reckon I'd happily pay £60K if I could relive those years at uni.

[wearthefoxhat]

+1 Being sat in your bedroom on your own for 50hrs a week isn't the ideal way to spend your best years. And do you take a 20/1 shot that you'll be making good money by aged 30

That doesn't just apply to trading

The people who have the best time @ uni, come out with a shit degree (generally) & are -£60K for the privilege

In the UK the student debt isn't a big deal. (unlike the shit degree)

They only repay it when they find work £25k+ (then it's £25 a month)
If they earn £100k+ a year, (then it's around £100 a month)

If they never earn more than £25k a year, the debt is written off when they reach 50 years old.

[Naffman]

+1 Being sat in your bedroom on your own for 50hrs a week isn't the ideal way to spend your best years. And do you take a 20/1 shot that you'll be making good money by aged 30

That doesn't just apply to trading

The people who have the best time @ uni, come out with a shit degree (generally) & are -£60K for the privilege

Exactly, I couldn't think of any better way to spend my 20s, I still have a social life and can spend my afternoons doing anything I want.

As far as teaching this, I would think a lot of profitable traders couldn't quantify into words how they make money race to race.

[alexmr2]

+1 Being sat in your bedroom on your own for 50hrs a week isn't the ideal way to spend your best years. And do you take a 20/1 shot that you'll be making good money by aged 30 or see that as 1/20 shot that you'll wake up when you're 30 having failed and realise you've missed the boat. Early money can kickstart your life but early hardship and isolation can take a lifetime to recover from.

What do you base 50 hours per week on? I would have thought that the average trader spends 15-30 hours trading + up to a few hours learning, analysing or rewatching trades etc

I would say that with 10,000 markets experience those odds of success become better, as perfect practice makes perfect. Still a scary thought that after years of trying and realised you have failed and the opportunity has passed though

[alexmr2]

+1 Being sat in your bedroom on your own for 50hrs a week isn't the ideal way to spend your best years. And do you take a 20/1 shot that you'll be making good money by aged 30

That doesn't just apply to trading

The people who have the best time @ uni, come out with a shit degree (generally) & are -£60K for the privilege

Exactly, I couldn't think of any better way to spend my 20s, I still have a social life and can spend my afternoons doing anything I want.

I done what was not known as a sh*t degree (Master's in engineering) but still ended up in a sh*t job (earning almost minimum wage), and of course the loan to pay back.

I would take the isolation of trading over sitting in an office all week with fixed hours, commuting, having to answer to a boss and book holidays anyday. I really miss the social aspect of some other previous jobs I had but the problem is that these types of jobs are going to leave you scraping by for the rest of your life

[ruthlessimon]

I would take the isolation of trading over sitting in an office all week with fixed hours, commuting, having to answer to a boss and book holidays anyday. I really miss the social aspect of some other previous jobs I had but the problem is that these types of jobs are going to leave you scraping by for the rest of your life

At the end of the day, trading is a form entrepreneurship, it's a gamble, it's a massive gamble yeah. But imho it's better to make that gamble young, when you've got little to no commitments (i.e. no young family).

But it's good to hear both sides. Arguably yes, there's a social sacrifice; but most trader's aint exactly massive party animals. & if they are, I don't quite understand why they'd be drawn to trading

That said though, a good trader worth their salt should be their own boss. & like Naffman, if you want pissup, you should be able to have a pissup at whim.

[alexmr2]

At the end of the day, trading is a form entrepreneurship, it's a gamble, it's a massive gamble yeah. But imho it's better to make that gamble young, when you've got little to no commitments (i.e. no young family).

Agree, I honestly don't know how anyone could cope with learning to trade whilst having kids/an unsupportive partner

Going to uni is a gamble
Getting a job is a gamble
Becoming self-employed is a gamble
Getting a mortgage is a gamble

So trading isn't that much worse. In the current climate as a wise angel once said, "the only way to make any decent money is to do what others aren't", and nowadays getting a degree then going into the competitive graduate job market to try and work your way up over 30 years is what everyone else is doing. After experiencing it I certainly know it's not what I want to be doing