Trading at random

[Zenyatta]

I think Zenyatta and Jeff probably over trade, when you trade and you think that has a chance of winning just leave it, just go for the ones that look like you can't lose, as Le tiss said it is boring thats because he'l sit and watch numbers for a long time just waiting for that really good chance.

Try it it may turn your slight loss into a profit.

Well, I'm just not psychologically suited to trading. I'm OK when things go well, but I seem to just go completely mental every-time it goes against me. No discipline; a bit of red and I get very angry and just blow my top every time. and start putting big amounts on or going In-Play to try to win it back. And I don't really have the patience for it either...sitting in front a computer screen for hours eking out tiny gains just makes me more and more restless until soon I can't resist taking another big gamble...

And yes, I'm guilty of not being selective and trying to trade every race; if I'd just stuck to the quality races on Thursday/Friday/Saturday in the summer time (like today), even I can't go wrong.

Instead, I wasted a lot of time and money on the lower grade stuff, which to be frank is just rubbish - untradeable if you ask me - a shambolic farce those races - a few big orders and the price jumps around like a dancing-monkey - all you can basically do is take a speculative position and hold.

[Naffman]

Well to be honest, I prefer the low-grade stuff because it has more volatility. I am probably one of the few full-time traders who just can't get his around Saturday racing, so I usually take the day off. Each to their own I guess. Sorry to hear you don't have the discipline Zenyatta, but I think some people can never let go of their gambling traits (especially after you win the lottery!)

[Zenyatta]

Well to be honest, I prefer the low-grade stuff because it has more volatility. I am probably one of the few full-time traders who just can't get his around Saturday racing, so I usually take the day off. Each to their own I guess.

Well, yes that is an interesting comment! The low-grade stuff you basically want to oppose trends and take speculative positions, which I've always had problems with, because it's just too fast moving for me and I tend to end up chasing prices and losing.

For the high-quality feature race stuff, prices are moving more slowly and you can actually follow trends here...I think the price moves are a lot more based on form, which is good for me because I like to study the form.

Sorry to hear you don't have the discipline Zenyatta, but I think some people can never let go of their gambling traits (especially after you win the lottery!)

Yes, after a big lottery win, trading just doesn't cut it somehow. The lottery win may not have been good for me, because it literally WAS tens of thousands at the push of a button for no effort Like a big rush of heroin to the brain , I have to search for more big gambles to get anywhere near the same thrill.

I'm a gambler at heart, not a trader. I think I can still win, I just need to pick my races a lot more carefully and be a lot more selective about when I get involved.

[speakers]

You're not the only one here to fly into a rage, Zenyatta. I'm alot like you, in that I get disproportionately irate, primarily I think, because of the results of trades telling you "you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong". There are very few situations in life where you are constantly and consistently told on a regular basis that you are not intelligent enough, intuitive enough and that the effort you have expended is worth nothing because it is still costing you. To some extent, discipline makes no difference to the boling up of these emotions because if you're wrong you lose money, whether or not you cut your losses. A loss overall is still a loss and they add up to your bank draining away.
I might write a post on this in the beginners thread where Jolly Green (I think) has written some good posts on trading psychology.
Speakers.

[Zenyatta]

Actually, I dont mind being wrong at all when everything is fair and square and price movements are slow, steady, and clear to all, as they are in quality meets like today.

Where I fly into a rage is where its clear I was NOT in fact wrong, but I was tricked into taking a bad price and then stopping-loss because it appeared to be moving against me, when in fact the price later totally retraced and if I hadn't stopped-out I would have won after all. This frequently occurs in the low-grade meets, which are heavily manipulated and the price jumps wildly all over the place because of spoofers, odd big orders etc.

[Iron]

Actually, I dont mind being wrong at all when everything is fair and square and price movements are slow, steady, and clear to all, as they are in quality meets like today.

Life isn't fair. The markets aren't fair.

It's best to accept that and to ask yourself, 'Knowing how unfair things are, and bearing in mind that shaking my fists at the sky doesn't achieve much, how can I make the most of this situation?'.

Jeff

[Iron]

I was going to put this in the nice trading quote thread, but this seems just as suitable a place:


"This market is manipulated!" - Translation: It can't be my fault that I'm not making money!

Coach's comment: "Who manipulates the market on your winning trades?" -

Brett Steenbarger

[Zenyatta]

Actually, I dont mind being wrong at all when everything is fair and square and price movements are slow, steady, and clear to all, as they are in quality meets like today.

Life isn't fair. The markets aren't fair.

It's best to accept that and to ask yourself, 'Knowing how unfair things are, and bearing in mind that shaking my fists at the sky doesn't achieve much, how can I make the most of thi ituation?'.

Jeff

To clarify, I said that for big-quality meets like today, the markets ARE in fact fair, and I'm perfectly happy to take my losses when I am wrong.

Where the markets are NOT fair
are the lower-grade races. Yes, I can deal with that, but when you know some very smart folks are out
manipulating prices this introduces a lot of complication and bother which just isn't worth the trouble.

[Iron]

Zenyatta

Just a random thought. You got a 2% loss on your account, so would doing the exact opposite of what you did result in a 2% profit?

And if so, why not give it a shot?

Jeff

[Zenyatta]

I was going to put this in the nice trading quote thread, but this seems just as suitable a place:


"This market is manipulated!" - Translation: It can't be my fault that I'm not making money!

Coach's comment: "Who manipulates the market on your winning trades?" -

Brett Steenbarger

You really are naive Jeff. I know whats happening on those lower grade markets...just compare how those low-grade races behave to how the markets today are behaving...you immediately see a MASSIVE difference obvious to anyone with half a brain.

[Iron]

Zenyatta

Firstly, there's no need to get personal.

I don't dispute that a high grade race will have different characteristics to a low grade race. As for whether it will be more or less manipulated, I have no idea.

I don't deny that manipulation takes place, btw. All I'm saying is that you should accept it and work around it (and possibly even profit from it!).

Jeff

[Euler]

I don't deny that manipulation takes place, btw. All I'm saying is that you should accept it and work around it (and possibly even profit from it!)

Spot on

[speakers]

That's a very simple thing to say for someone who is extremely intelligent and knows exactly what is going on and only makes a loss if something odd happens. In the vast majority of cases, where someone has a very limited bank, cannot affect anything around them and gets washed around with the market how big a red do you rack up before deciding 'actually I can't afford to risk it not coming back?'

[Iron]

In my case, about 8 grand, although I may come back at some point.

Jeff

How big a red do you rack up before deciding 'actually I can't afford to risk it not coming back?'

[speakers]

That's a massive amount of money for an ordinary person.