How would cross matching against separate events work if the are both reliant on seprleate outcomes?Euler wrote:An interesting aspect of Betfair that people have forgotten was that cross matching was original part of Betfair's original model. But they switched it off.andyfuller wrote:4. Was XM introduced as a way to make more people get bets matched, quite likely but it also had a nice side effect of making BF money - which came first, the chicken or the egg? I suspect it was the aim to get more bets matched as they would think that would lead to better customer satisfaction and more commission, once the idea was handed over to the whizz kids they probably let them know within minutes it would lead to a nice side line of profit.
During a meeting earlier this year at Betfair they told me they were about to start doing cross market cross matching. So that probably hasn't helped things very much!
Do betfair Trade their own markets?
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steven1976
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Steve
Its not always the end outcome that you're trading ie You could be trading the 0-0 in a football match and no goals at half time. Lots of examples.
Most of the markets are highly correlated already in terms of the odds available. I would imagine it would just be the volume of money available that would vary.
Regards
Peter
Its not always the end outcome that you're trading ie You could be trading the 0-0 in a football match and no goals at half time. Lots of examples.
Most of the markets are highly correlated already in terms of the odds available. I would imagine it would just be the volume of money available that would vary.
Regards
Peter
Yep, Peter's example is perfect
However, once again this shows what a bunch of deceitful wankers BF have become - that has nothing to do with giving a better product to customers, so they get matched easier.....it has everything to do with killing off successful trading strategies of those who look for opportunities in related markets and hoovering up any underrounds they can find
My contempt and anger towards the fuckers who run BF these days holds no boundaries at all
However, once again this shows what a bunch of deceitful wankers BF have become - that has nothing to do with giving a better product to customers, so they get matched easier.....it has everything to do with killing off successful trading strategies of those who look for opportunities in related markets and hoovering up any underrounds they can find
My contempt and anger towards the fuckers who run BF these days holds no boundaries at all
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steven1976
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Peterle that's what I kind of thought it would be to be. I wasnt thinking all out of play though. I was thinking one game in play where your taking on risk for a quick 1 or 20 tick move, whilst offering or taking a position in a market that wasn't in play to make sure your downside isn't to bad. Well beyond me clicking the mouse at 5 clicks per second though!
Letiss its going to cost them in advertising time now at least. Long gone are the days of betting against another trader which they could do in 30 sec as a punt against each other. They are going to have to take a 30min primetime slot to explain it.
Letiss its going to cost them in advertising time now at least. Long gone are the days of betting against another trader which they could do in 30 sec as a punt against each other. They are going to have to take a 30min primetime slot to explain it.
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steven1976
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Actually think I've confused myself further! 
Stevesteven1976 wrote:
Letiss its going to cost them in advertising time now at least. Long gone are the days of betting against another trader which they could do in 30 sec as a punt against each other. They are going to have to take a 30min primetime slot to explain it.
I think it would all be transparent to the casual punter. Betfair wont try to explain it. It will just appear to make each market look like it has more liquidity than it truly has.
It would be very easy to programme their systems to do this, once they have written the code, it would be automated..and I bet they wouldnt be subjected to any bet delays!
LeTiss, you may as well make hay on this world cup whilst you can! Do you think you will be doing it next time around in 4 years?
Regards
Peter
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guddu09993
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sir i have the same experience in the last year pakistan v new zealand series in dubai. i found no one there who was having placing bets from stadium. i checked media box, broadcasters box, radio commentary box every where but they were ahead of me around 1 second . i was having a wifi password of stadium. i dont know how they were placing bets as i was watching live and i was having fastest internet.
3virgul14 wrote:I would tell you about my 1st hand experience on court trading but being read by betfair officials here ( no anonymity) I`ll keep the details to myself. Or can tell you on skype if anyone is interested.
Just to make the point, surely there are traders who can beat the 5 seconds. I counted between 4-5..But always half a second ahead of my 5 + 50ms delay..
It happened in a place where we checked all the court and no courtsiders were existing. We checked all the VIP rooms and even the broadcasters room in the court to see if there were anyone trading in front of a screen. Nope.
I checked the SAT feed and was 1.5 second behind of the court reality.
What`s remaining? We are not talking about a day here..I tried from the 1st round till the semi finals.. No chance!
Great thread as what I see recently on football markets is shocking. The markets behaves like on every game we have a courtsider. Even 2nd Bundesliga Action, on every stadium. If you see the match live, and you have fast internet there is no option on earth to be quicker than you. I tried once courtsiding on volleyball matches (few years ago- until volleyball dried up)so I have little expierience. How anonymous we are on this forum?
I don't think Betfair did themselves any favours when introducing XM and everybody finding out it just happened to give them margin. Then they have changed and extended it several times but very little has been said publicly about that.
But, I've attended sports events where I've seen people backing stuff miles out, way out. So I think that often looks like somebody beating the market, but it's just people trading by anticipating that something should happen.
I went to a Tennis match and we carefully correlated timings with odds and you could see that people were backing players before they had hit the return shot. So a server was returned and they were backing that a split second after it left the racket. Or when the ball lifted high they anticipated the smash.
When I was at Laytown people were backing heavily 2-3f out for horses that hadn't won. They were just gambling they wouldn't lose the lead.
So, it's impossible to say for sure that Betfair are not up to something, but the market is pretty crazy anyhow.
But, I've attended sports events where I've seen people backing stuff miles out, way out. So I think that often looks like somebody beating the market, but it's just people trading by anticipating that something should happen.
I went to a Tennis match and we carefully correlated timings with odds and you could see that people were backing players before they had hit the return shot. So a server was returned and they were backing that a split second after it left the racket. Or when the ball lifted high they anticipated the smash.
When I was at Laytown people were backing heavily 2-3f out for horses that hadn't won. They were just gambling they wouldn't lose the lead.
So, it's impossible to say for sure that Betfair are not up to something, but the market is pretty crazy anyhow.
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andyfuller
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Not sure I nor PeterLe would agree with that.LeTiss 4pm wrote:XM has been terrible for traders
You just beat me to it Andy
That first 6 months or so, I made a shed full of money, Id rather not say how much but it was 5 figures each month.
It slowly tailed off but then it was almost like a switch. It was also reflected on other forums such as other software.
I personally think betfair modified the Cross matching formula from the original. (I don't mean linking it to correlated events, the raw formula I mean). They never published it either.
In addition to that, Im fairly sure they also trade in play.
If it helps others; what ive adapted to these days is trade in the markets at points where they cant control the odds ( You will have to think about that..and hold your positions)
Regards
Peter
(PS Wasn't Betfair making something like £300K from cross matching and rounding I seem to recall>?)
That first 6 months or so, I made a shed full of money, Id rather not say how much but it was 5 figures each month.
It slowly tailed off but then it was almost like a switch. It was also reflected on other forums such as other software.
I personally think betfair modified the Cross matching formula from the original. (I don't mean linking it to correlated events, the raw formula I mean). They never published it either.
In addition to that, Im fairly sure they also trade in play.
If it helps others; what ive adapted to these days is trade in the markets at points where they cant control the odds ( You will have to think about that..and hold your positions)
Regards
Peter
(PS Wasn't Betfair making something like £300K from cross matching and rounding I seem to recall>?)