Betfair's relationship with traders

[stueytrader]

Thanks Kai - previous points seem mostly about strategy in general with creating ads.

I still think the content is a little odd - queues waiting at a counter and betting on them moving, why not just actually use a sport example instead?

I've not seen that one so can't really comment, please link it if you see it. Idk who Graeme Swann is.

This is the specifically 'trading' targeted ad they have produced:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNfe_WTJ9q8

[Kai]

Thanks, this one looks like a decent idea ruined by poor execution. Don't think they simplified it enough for the casual mind to understand, could have been made much better.

[stueytrader]

Yep, similar to my thoughts about it - trying to be too slick and clever, which just makes it look odd and confusing IMO.

If I was a complete newbie to exchanges and/or trading I'd be completely in the dark about what exactly it was, looking at that advert.

[Euler]

That's pretty confusing, they seem to be sort of describing a horse race inplay.

I think it needs something more simpler and more appealing to punters, like.... You know you backed that good thing that lost. Here is a way to profit from that.

[stueytrader]

That's pretty confusing, they seem to be sort of describing a horse race inplay.

I think it needs something more simpler and more appealing to punters, like.... You know you backed that good thing that lost. Here is a way to profit from that.

Totally agree. I can't understand why they didn't just use an actual sport example like you say.

On an aside, price of advertising was mentioned earlier in this thread - can't imagine this is dirt cheap, with a star name fronting these ads and slick production values.

[northbound]

Also, Betfair face an uphill task to make people understand that the Sportsbook and the Exchange are two different things.

At this stage they’d probably be better off re-branding the Exchange, in my opinion.

My feeling is that, sadly, Betfair (a bit like Apple) has turned into a typical corporation run by bean counters, with no real vision/passion for what once was their main product.

[stueytrader]

Also, Betfair face an uphill task to make people understand that the Sportsbook and the Exchange are two different things.

At this stage they’d probably be better off re-branding the Exchange, in my opinion.

My feeling is that, sadly, Betfair (a bit like Apple) has turned into a typical corporation run by bean counters, with no real vision/passion for what once was their main product.

Fair comment in some ways, but at least they are trying something with advertising at least, which suggests they haven't given up on the concept (as some feared).

[Euler]

Newbies often have no idea what an exchange is. I noticed Betfair, finally, swapped the sportsbooks and exchange buttons on the home page. But they shouldn't have pushed people to the sportsbook in the first place. I always argued, launch a sportsbook for sure, but under a different brand.

If you think about it, the brand was always the key Bet FAIR. A completely new way to bet, but now that's been heavily diluted.

If anything I think Smarkets are on the right track. Have an exchange, create a sports books but push liquidity to the exchange. Now, it's not as simple as that. But if you made the exchange the core product and drove liquidity to it. You would be completely unbeatable.

Work with third parties to implement solutions to territories and specific segments that you can't or won't cover and create a global unstoppable pool of liquidity at prices that can't be beaten and a model that shows that you are driving fairness in sports betting and all related aspects.

Or, simply shaft punters stupid like most models seem to be geared up to do in the industry! Hmm...

[northbound]

If you neglected your wife for years, you can’t really expect that two weeks in a 5* resort will fix things. You can’t hope to build a solid rapport just by splashing money. Hence why these ads don’t really feel good.

To me these ads suggest that the Betfair boardroom don’t have a clue nor love for the Exchange product. If they did, for example they wouldn’t have gone months without fixing the historical data website.

If they did, they would have invested more time and money to something that is crucial for the Exchange liquidity: negotiating a deal with (for example) Italian and Spanish governments in order to keep a common pool of liquidity, instead of bending over and having to operate separate ones in those countries.

I’d be more impressed if the Betfair board decided to rebrand the Exchange. Super simple way of getting rid of the confusion they created thanks to their Sportsbook. Don’t take my word for it, the following recent Twitter conversation says it all.

- - - - -

1925AFD5-B737-4A9F-9C12-3DAF9A228AD1.jpeg

[stueytrader]

That lack of understanding is exactly why the new ads should have been clearer and less 'arty' in their presentation!

[Euler]

It smacks of an advertising agency brief.

What message do you want to get across? Well lets look a bit deeper at that shall we, hold on that's going to cost a bit more.

[spreadbetting]

Trying to promote trading on the exchange is a pointless exercise, they need to promote the exchange on the basis of better odds.

[ShaunWhite]

My feeling is that, sadly, Betfair (a bit like Apple) has turned into a typical corporation run by bean counters, with no real vision/passion for what once was their main product.

The only 'passion' Betfair ever had was for finding an exit strategy for their business. Paddy Power is just a regular multinational with the standard objectives.

I don't really understand why they or anyone would invest in an exchange. It's a niche product that's only had modest market penetration after 2 decades of quite high profile exposure. Bookmaking on the other hand is a mass market product which has a proven track record of excellent returns for 6 decades.

Successful businesses usually cut out the distractions and focus on their core product. It's why Amazon don't hold auctions and eBay doesn't do retail. Paddy Power are trying to do both. If I was PP CEO I'd bin Betfair by trying to find a mug to sell it to. If even Peter can't generate any excitement for new exchange models on his visits to the USA, the epicenter of capitalist enterprise, it proves it's not a very appealing prospect.

As sb said you could attract people with the prices and hope they stay for the trading. But the first time a punter realises an exchange bet comes with none of the consumer protections bookmaking has established they'll be off. I assume everyone here shops at the supermarket rather than through wholesalers? Bookies/exchanges are the same choice.

[stueytrader]

I don't really understand why they or anyone would invest in an exchange. It's a niche product that's only had modest market penetration after 2 decades of quite high profile exposure. Bookmaking on the other hand is a mass market product which has a proven track record of excellent returns for 6 decades.

Though surely traditional bookmaking is also a saturated and massively competitive market?

At least the BF exchange has some elements of USP about it in comparison.

The number of 'sportsbooks' that appear and then disappear show that being bookie isn't that great at all really. It's a pretty stagnant market.

[ShaunWhite]

Though surely traditional bookmaking is also a saturated and massively competitive market?

At least the BF exchange has some elements of USP about it in comparison.

I agree, and I think that's why anyone that's already established should focus on maintaining that dominance or risk losing it.
Again I agree, but a USP on it's own isn't much use unless people actual want it, and it's a USP that's been around for 20 yrs so it's hardly untested.

PP should be given a lot of credit for getting involved in BF, but the fact the other bookies didn't snap up the other exchanges tells me it's not an investment that a clear cut decision.

Being market 'insiders' nobody here will have a cold unbiased opinion, and it's not exactly a community of business giants so even though we're all entitled to our opinions it's unlikely that those opinions would translate into much business success. Being a successful trader doesn't qualify you as an expert in running an exchange any more than being a winning driver qualifies you in the field of manufacturing cars. If it did then Peter would have returned from the USA with his pockets bulging with investment dollars and WebbWeb would be sponsoring the Grand National.