6% profit on bankroll per day

[ANGELS15]

Now we all know that most day to day markets will have a cap on what it will take. I was hoping some experienced traders would hint at what kind of bankroll they can utilize on everyday racing but alas, no one was forthcoming except for the old "how long is a piece of string" comments. Although, I do understand that definitive answers are almost impossible in this game
I am upping my stakes slowly though, in line with what I am comfortable with..I don't push too hard as I know I could blow up anytime.

For everyday racing I'm happy to be exposed to around £2K , so £200 @ 11, £400 at 6 etc doesn't mean I'll be able to get those stakes matched though. My average exposure per bet today has been £213, calculatated by odds minus 1 times stakes, but that does include bots.

Thanks SB. I was looking for that ballpark figure for everyday racing. I had guessed around £1500 - £2000 as that's what Peter also seems to trying to get on for these also. Understand it won't always get matched though. So i'm a long way of that atm, but in time I may get up there. Even halfway would produce the modest profit I need to do this full time.

Surely if you're consistently making 6% on your bank per day that's £180 per month on a £100 bank without really having to try very hard. You seem to have cracked it by what you're saying so if it were me I'd up my bank to £500 and be making close to £1000 per month which would be a decent part time income. If that continued a bank of £1000/£2000 should give you a decent income with stakes that should be matched fairly easily.

[MemphisFlash]

Now we all know that most day to day markets will have a cap on what it will take. I was hoping some experienced traders would hint at what kind of bankroll they can utilize on everyday racing but alas, no one was forthcoming except for the old "how long is a piece of string" comments. Although, I do understand that definitive answers are almost impossible in this game
I am upping my stakes slowly though, in line with what I am comfortable with..I don't push too hard as I know I could blow up anytime.
[/quote]

Everbody knows the length of a piece of string is twice the distance from the centre to the edge!!!

[smallplayer]

For everyday racing I'm happy to be exposed to around £2K , so £200 @ 11, £400 at 6 etc doesn't mean I'll be able to get those stakes matched though. My average exposure per bet today has been £213, calculatated by odds minus 1 times stakes, but that does include bots.

Thanks SB. I was looking for that ballpark figure for everyday racing. I had guessed around £1500 - £2000 as that's what Peter also seems to trying to get on for these also. Understand it won't always get matched though. So i'm a long way of that atm, but in time I may get up there. Even halfway would produce the modest profit I need to do this full time.

Surely if you're consistently making 6% on your bank per day that's £180 per month on a £100 bank without really having to try very hard. You seem to have cracked it by what you're saying so if it were me I'd up my bank to £500 and be making close to £1000 per month which would be a decent part time income. If that continued a bank of £1000/£2000 should give you a decent income with stakes that should be matched fairly easily.

That's my plan Angel. In the past i have encountered pressure when upping stakes too soon, so I decided to go slowly. The 6% return is over the last just shy of 1500 races, in which I have tried hard. I am quite selective in what I trade and I only get average 12- 15 races per trading day. So limited opportunities. I will increase slowly and try to get used to the bigger risks. Thankfully over time I have become very loss averse (which I believe is necessary).

[ANGELS15]

Thanks SB. I was looking for that ballpark figure for everyday racing. I had guessed around £1500 - £2000 as that's what Peter also seems to trying to get on for these also. Understand it won't always get matched though. So i'm a long way of that atm, but in time I may get up there. Even halfway would produce the modest profit I need to do this full time.

Surely if you're consistently making 6% on your bank per day that's £180 per month on a £100 bank without really having to try very hard. You seem to have cracked it by what you're saying so if it were me I'd up my bank to £500 and be making close to £1000 per month which would be a decent part time income. If that continued a bank of £1000/£2000 should give you a decent income with stakes that should be matched fairly easily.

That's my plan Angel. In the past i have encountered pressure when upping stakes too soon, so I decided to go slowly. The 6% return is over the last just shy of 1500 races, in which I have tried hard. I am quite selective in what I trade and I only get average 12- 15 races per trading day. So limited opportunities. I will increase slowly and try to get used to the bigger risks. Thankfully over time I have become very loss averse (which I believe is necessary).

Sounds like the best approach.

[goat68]

Hi. Genuine question as have hardly any contact with other traders so don't really know. Trading only manually on pre off horses. Profit is 6% of bankroll per day on average 20 races per day. Based on small 1500 race sample. Bankroll varies between £200 - £500. No idea if that's close to normal or if i'm still a bit crap tbh Thanks.

Matter of interest, as it seems you have cracked it! How long has it taken you to get here?
I'm trying to figure out if I am just a dumb ass!

[smallplayer]

Hi. Genuine question as have hardly any contact with other traders so don't really know. Trading only manually on pre off horses. Profit is 6% of bankroll per day on average 20 races per day. Based on small 1500 race sample. Bankroll varies between £200 - £500. No idea if that's close to normal or if i'm still a bit crap tbh Thanks.

Matter of interest, as it seems you have cracked it! How long has it taken you to get here?
I'm trying to figure out if I am just a dumb ass!

just over 400 traded days roughly with average 20 races per day roughly, so 8k races.
Small losses from day 1 till 5k races traded as I never played with big bank (couldn't afford to lose anything tbh). Stayed at £2 stakes for first 4k races I think
Breakeven from about 5000 races and slowly moving into small profits from about 6000 up to now where I can turn average 6% profit on bank per day with careful play. Some days I am +20% ROI and some days -2%, but average is 6% over the last 1500 or so. It's certainly not automatic for me yet and I could mess up anytime if I'm not careful.
You're not a dumb ass. It just takes lots of practise. Even when you are doing ok, it's hard to know as my op shows. The small bank showing small gains and the variance can make you question if you are actually doing it right and this in turn makes you waste time trying and testing other strategies, etc, when all you really gotta do is keep going with what you know works for you.
Go into each day's trading with humility.

[goat68]

Hi. Genuine question as have hardly any contact with other traders so don't really know. Trading only manually on pre off horses. Profit is 6% of bankroll per day on average 20 races per day. Based on small 1500 race sample. Bankroll varies between £200 - £500. No idea if that's close to normal or if i'm still a bit crap tbh Thanks.

Matter of interest, as it seems you have cracked it! How long has it taken you to get here?
I'm trying to figure out if I am just a dumb ass!

just over 400 traded days roughly with average 20 races per day roughly, so 8k races.
Small losses from day 1 till 5k races traded as I never played with big bank (couldn't afford to lose anything tbh). Stayed at £2 stakes for first 4k races I think
Breakeven from about 5000 races and slowly moving into small profits from about 6000 up to now where I can turn average 6% profit on bank per day with careful play. Some days I am +20% ROI and some days -2%, but average is 6% over the last 1500 or so. It's certainly not automatic for me yet and I could mess up anytime if I'm not careful.
You're not a dumb ass. It just takes lots of practise. Even when you are doing ok, it's hard to know as my op shows. The small bank showing small gains and the variance can make you question if you are actually doing it right and this in turn makes you waste time trying and testing other strategies, etc, when all you really gotta do is keep going with what you know works for you.
Go into each day's trading with humility.

Thanks, that's good to understand your journey, awesome job

[Kai]

It's certainly not automatic for me yet and I could mess up anytime if I'm not careful.

Many are unable to put consistent effort into it over a longer period without getting disheartened, sounds like you're somewhere in the green zone probably on this illustration, no pun intended.

[smallplayer]

Yes. I knew I was there. Seen the old "5 stages to betfair trading". Seems it lasts 6 months, which I would deem to be about right based on how I feel about the markets and am getting on.

[Morbius]

Hi Smallplayer,

I really enjoyed reading your posts and hope that you are still doing well. I would like to ask you a couple of questions if I may with regards to what you said with your profit and loss ratio. You mentioned 1:1 and that you went to 1.5:1 but couldn't get 2:1.

My first question is over what time frames do you enter your markets, for example when do you enter and exit time wise, do you have a specific time period that you find more profitable than others, final 5 minutes for example or 15m out to 5m etc etc.

Second question I would like to ask is what size profit do you look for in terms of number of ticks and does that vary from market to market?? I am trying to learn the basics as it stands so 6% per day for me would be like the Holy Grail

[smallplayer]

Hi Smallplayer,

I really enjoyed reading your posts and hope that you are still doing well. I would like to ask you a couple of questions if I may with regards to what you said with your profit and loss ratio. You mentioned 1:1 and that you went to 1.5:1 but couldn't get 2:1.

My first question is over what time frames do you enter your markets, for example when do you enter and exit time wise, do you have a specific time period that you find more profitable than others, final 5 minutes for example or 15m out to 5m etc etc.

Second question I would like to ask is what size profit do you look for in terms of number of ticks and does that vary from market to market?? I am trying to learn the basics as it stands so 6% per day for me would be like the Holy Grail

Hi. I hope you are aware I am somewhat still a newbie myself, or maybe an intermediate trader. However I will try to answer as best I can.
As regards to the profit loss ratio, you have to have at least 1:1 to be breaking even. If your losses are greater than your wins, then you are losing money. Personally, I get about 1.5:1 ratio returns but everyone will be different I assume depending on their style of trading.
The best answer to that was provided a few days ago by Trader Pat in the "Trading what I see" thread by Goat. Worth a thorough read as full of tips. He says, only enter when the previous race is finishing and the traders are starting to bet on current race, i.e the money is arriving. This can vary depending on the race card, but it usually will be about 5 -7 mins before the off. Also it is advised by most to not start trading until at least 100k is matched, although some will say different.
Every race is different and there are many race types. Only experience and participation in the markets will learn you these. I think at your stage, the only thing you should focus on in each race is to not lose. Anything you make is a bonus. Do what you think is right and try to stay out of trouble.

[Morbius]

Hi Smallplayer,

I really enjoyed reading your posts and hope that you are still doing well. I would like to ask you a couple of questions if I may with regards to what you said with your profit and loss ratio. You mentioned 1:1 and that you went to 1.5:1 but couldn't get 2:1.

My first question is over what time frames do you enter your markets, for example when do you enter and exit time wise, do you have a specific time period that you find more profitable than others, final 5 minutes for example or 15m out to 5m etc etc.

Second question I would like to ask is what size profit do you look for in terms of number of ticks and does that vary from market to market?? I am trying to learn the basics as it stands so 6% per day for me would be like the Holy Grail

Hi. I hope you are aware I am somewhat still a newbie myself, or maybe an intermediate trader. However I will try to answer as best I can.
As regards to the profit loss ratio, you have to have at least 1:1 to be breaking even. If your losses are greater than your wins, then you are losing money. Personally, I get about 1.5:1 ratio returns but everyone will be different I assume depending on their style of trading.
The best answer to that was provided a few days ago by Trader Pat in the "Trading what I see" thread by Goat. Worth a thorough read as full of tips. He says, only enter when the previous race is finishing and the traders are starting to bet on current race, i.e the money is arriving. This can vary depending on the race card, but it usually will be about 5 -7 mins before the off. Also it is advised by most to not start trading until at least 100k is matched, although some will say different.
Every race is different and there are many race types. Only experience and participation in the markets will learn you these. I think at your stage, the only thing you should focus on in each race is to not lose. Anything you make is a bonus. Do what you think is right and try to stay out of trouble.

Thanks for the feedback and I will certainly take a look at that thread today. My own personal experience at this stage of trading around 500 races or so is that the market seems incredibly jumpy to strive for more than 1:5 if you are trading say 5 ticks or more. Out of curiosity smallplayer, what tick size do you normally try to achieve with your profit target???

[Morbius]

Actually I was going to put this question into a thread but didn't think it merited one on its own so thought I would ask it here as this seems the more relevant thread. While this question may be hypothetical at this stage and even theoretical, at what stage would a 6% daily profit begin to decline because of liquidity issues on the exchanges?

So if for example someone started with £1000 and was making 6% per day, how high could they parlay their bankroll before the daily percentage began to suffer because of trade size limitations??? Is this reach at say £3k...£5k....£10k etc assuming an aggressive strategy.

[smallplayer]

Actually I was going to put this question into a thread but didn't think it merited one on its own so thought I would ask it here as this seems the more relevant thread. While this question may be hypothetical at this stage and even theoretical, at what stage would a 6% daily profit begin to decline because of liquidity issues on the exchanges?

So if for example someone started with £1000 and was making 6% per day, how high could they parlay their bankroll before the daily percentage began to suffer because of trade size limitations??? Is this reach at say £3k...£5k....£10k etc assuming an aggressive strategy.

As I said at start of the thread, i am only using average £200 - £500, with closer to £200 being more common tbh, so I have not the experience to answer that one. i am sure one of the other guys will be along to help with that question soon.