Betfair have scrapped the Premium Charge

[TheDane]

Hi

I wonder if this also takes other countries into account, or if it is a move only for UK citizens???
I ask because I have unsuccessfully tried to find out through BF that does not have a Danish support.

Best regards from Denmark
TheDane

[ShaunWhite]

I didn't want to make a negative return but unfortunately perks for winners such as fee reductions are pointless without providing us with more losers. If I could double my stake size then I'd happily pay higher charges, but if losers are rare then even 1% could be too much as the potential yield from markets gets so small they can't sustain more than a handful of fulltimers. Then liquidity reduces further, punters can't get on even if they want to, and there's a downward spiral.

It would have been great if they'd given us the chance to earn more gross rather than some paying less tax on a shrinking gross.

[Lynskey888]

What a pleasant surprise! I really hope this brings more people to Betfair, punters and traders alike. I always thought the Premium Charge would discourage people from gambling on the exchange (even if they were unlikely to be affected by it.) If you're used to betting with a bookie, Betfair may appear unnecessarily complicated in comparison. PC was simply a convenient excuse not to make the effort to learn.

This is also exciting news for me, personally. I started trading in November 2023 and I've been in profit from the start, perhaps more through luck than judgement, certainly over the first few trades. The Premium Charge tab appeared on my account within a month; a boost to my confidence, initially, but over time it made me question whether all the effort was worthwhile.

I had ups and downs as I experimented in different markets and with different strategies. In fact, I only began to use Bet Angel in late spring this year, and that in itself coincided with a downturn in my bank as I found my feet on the ladder. However, for the last six months, the profit and loss graph has gone steadily upwards and I've been eating away at my Premium Charge allowance.

This has been achieved by taking lots of small daily profits (particularly since the cycling season ended). I was happy to do this while I was learning, although I must admit, the thought of grafting on the ladder to make a tenner and then handing two quid of that over to Betfair was incredibly discouraging. This news is a real boost to morale.

[Naffman]

Just another one from me but I feel this is the exact model they should've used when PC was first introduced ie. not punishing the smaller winners who'd been using BF for a long time and the outrageous 60% bracket. Overall though it shows how reliant BF are on PC money each week as they won't be much worse off but hopefully it all generates more liquidity in the markets.

[tomallen123]

Will be interested in how they apply the Last 52 Active Week Gross P&L.


What is an "Active Week"?
An Active Week will be considered as any week where you have at least one settled bet in a market that fully settles in that week.

If you had a 2 week holiday in the middle of a 52 week period and placed no bets, would they then go further back and add another 2 weeks where you were active.

[Euler]

Will be interested in how they apply the Last 52 Active Week Gross P&L.


What is an "Active Week"?
An Active Week will be considered as any week where you have at least one settled bet in a market that fully settles in that week.

If you had a 2 week holiday in the middle of a 52 week period and placed no bets, would they then go further back and add another 2 weeks where you were active.

Just place a bet of some sort if you want to keep the active weeks going.

[Tuco]

...yes - just place a £2 bet on 'Lucky Dan' each week you're away

[Naffman]

Will be interested in how they apply the Last 52 Active Week Gross P&L.


What is an "Active Week"?
An Active Week will be considered as any week where you have at least one settled bet in a market that fully settles in that week.

If you had a 2 week holiday in the middle of a 52 week period and placed no bets, would they then go further back and add another 2 weeks where you were active.

Guessing so, if you don't churn you could always just place a £1 bet on a football match during the impacted weeks

[BFDon]

Can anyone confirm, by "Last 52 Active Week Gross P&L", are Betfair referring to P&L after commission, (but presumably before PC)?

ie the same values that can be found in the newer P&L page? https://profitandloss.betfair.com/

Gross PL has always been before Commission for PC purposes hasn't it? Would be nice if they shifted it the other way

[tomallen123]

Will be interested in how they apply the Last 52 Active Week Gross P&L.


What is an "Active Week"?
An Active Week will be considered as any week where you have at least one settled bet in a market that fully settles in that week.

If you had a 2 week holiday in the middle of a 52 week period and placed no bets, would they then go further back and add another 2 weeks where you were active.

Just place a bet of some sort if you want to keep the active weeks going.

I'm thinking more of weeks that have already happened.
Am I right in thinking that if you earn over 100k by being an active trader that your goal should really be trying to get that 52 week active P&L below the 100k asap and onto the 20% charge by having some time off, whilst placing a bet per week to keep the weeks active
(Unless you are earning way way over 100k)

Earn 100k at 20% expert fee and your net is 80k
Earn 150k at 40% expert fee and your net is 90k
Only 10k better off net but you would have had to put some serious hours in to get that extra 10k and far worse from a work/life balance perspective

[Lynskey888]

...yes - just place a £2 bet on 'Lucky Dan' each week you're away

Make sure you’re in an each-way market!

[Kai]

...yes - just place a £2 bet on 'Lucky Dan' each week you're away

And then place a £2 lay bet on 'Lucky Dan' at the same price

[Kai]

Didn't sink in for me either but if churning's now dead wouldn't this be expected to negatively impact volume numbers too

Commission Generated still contributes towards your PC, (or EF I should say now I suppose).

So churning isn't necessarily dead, but it will have to work harder. Half of 2% + half of 2.5% = 2.25% which is still greater than 2%.

That said, I'm not sure if my current churning exercise would any longer be net profitable. I will certainly have to tighten a few attributes.

Commission churning still works.

Last week I lost £714.28 through commission churning. This created Com Gen of £828.68 and reduced my PC @ 40% by £849.48. So a net gain of £135.20.

If I have calculated correctly, then the same churning activity under the new structure would have created Com Gen of £745.86 and reduced my PC @ 40% by £766.66. So still a net gain of £52.38 and worth doing, despite the changes to implied commission. Plus there's the possible upside of the -£714 knocking me under a threshold in the future.

[Naffman]

Will be interested in how they apply the Last 52 Active Week Gross P&L.


What is an "Active Week"?
An Active Week will be considered as any week where you have at least one settled bet in a market that fully settles in that week.

If you had a 2 week holiday in the middle of a 52 week period and placed no bets, would they then go further back and add another 2 weeks where you were active.

Just place a bet of some sort if you want to keep the active weeks going.

I'm thinking more of weeks that have already happened.
Am I right in thinking that if you earn over 100k by being an active trader that your goal should really be trying to get that 52 week active P&L below the 100k asap and onto the 20% charge by having some time off, whilst placing a bet per week to keep the weeks active
(Unless you are earning way way over 100k)

Earn 100k at 20% expert fee and your net is 80k
Earn 150k at 40% expert fee and your net is 90k
Only 10k better off net but you would have had to put some serious hours in to get that extra 10k and far worse from a work/life balance perspective

Pretty much and ditto for the 25k crossover, it doesn't really encourage bigger winners to do more.

[wearthefoxhat]

A Christmas Miracle for Bet Angel Users

'Twas the night before Christmas, and all through the land,
Betfair users were dreaming, of a change so grand.
The Premium Charge, a burden so steep,
Was finally scrapped, bringing joy so deep.

Bet Angel users, with hearts full of cheer,
Rejoiced at the news, spreading far and near.
No more deductions, no more dismay,
A wonderful gift, on this festive day.

The markets were buzzing, with trades all around,
As users celebrated, their profits unbound.
No more restrictions, just freedom to play,
A Christmas to remember, in every way.

So here's to Betfair, for making it right,
Bringing joy to our hearts, on this magical night.
A toast to the future, so bright and so fair,
Merry Christmas to all, and to all a great share!

But alas, joy turned sour, as news came to light,
Betfair had plotted, under cover of night.
The Premium Charge was gone, but you see,
In its place now loomed the Expert Fee.

The Grinch that stole Christmas, a fee so unkind,
Robbing the joy that users did find.
So here's to Betfair, for their clever disguise,
A Christmas surprise that no one could prize.

Merry Christmas to all, with a bittersweet air,
And to Betfair a nod—for their expert flair.

There once was a platform so fair,
where the traders would flock and declare,
"The premium charge fee has now gone,
an expert's fee added on!"
But beware of the checks in the air.

For the traders, a bittersweet cheer,
As the fees take a turn for the clear,
But the elephant in the room looms,
casts ominous glooms—
Affordability’s shadow draws near.

Hail to Peter, the Bet Angel king,
Whose wisdom made Betfair take wing.
His voice paved the way,
For this bright Christmas pay day,
Yet the Gambling commission still refuses to sing!