Motivation from other Trader's blogs and P&Ls.
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spreadbetting
- Posts: 3140
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm
I'm quite a cynic when it comes to pnl shots but even I'd agree that posting red pnl's doesn't actually achieve anything or motivate people. For most 'experienced' traders those losses are likely to be small anyway, and won't really show anything, and I'd guess even novice traders would be aware it's easy to lose large amounts through not closing out etc.
I want to give my own explanation for my participation in this forum. I have shown results to show what might be achieved for the purpose of motivation. That is the heading. I haven't cherry picked a race, I've shown a couple of monthly graphs, warts and all.
I will not show particular strategies or trades for several reasons, but the main reason is selfish although in my view reasonable. My trades are automated. I don't want people to back solve them and then do exactly the same thing. If people precisely copy me, we will all lose. I make losses from time to time for several reasons and one of the main reasons is if I myself constitute too big a proportion of a relevant opportunity (I'm constantly refining towards the Goldilocks formula). If everyone joins and does exactly the same thing my edge (in the particular strategy) is gone. In addition, I'll get complaints that my strategy doesn't work.
What I hope is demonstrated is the possibility that through perseverance each person might find there own way to success (we can't all trade like Euler, because we are not Euler and our brains are wired in different ways). But what we can do is each find our own way if discipline and rigor are observed. Not everyone has the discipline to do so. And I say discipline, because that is what I believe prevents many from becoming profitable. Discipline to learn. Discipline to close out reds. Discipline to not blow profits in a speculative flutter. Discipline.
I will not show particular strategies or trades for several reasons, but the main reason is selfish although in my view reasonable. My trades are automated. I don't want people to back solve them and then do exactly the same thing. If people precisely copy me, we will all lose. I make losses from time to time for several reasons and one of the main reasons is if I myself constitute too big a proportion of a relevant opportunity (I'm constantly refining towards the Goldilocks formula). If everyone joins and does exactly the same thing my edge (in the particular strategy) is gone. In addition, I'll get complaints that my strategy doesn't work.
What I hope is demonstrated is the possibility that through perseverance each person might find there own way to success (we can't all trade like Euler, because we are not Euler and our brains are wired in different ways). But what we can do is each find our own way if discipline and rigor are observed. Not everyone has the discipline to do so. And I say discipline, because that is what I believe prevents many from becoming profitable. Discipline to learn. Discipline to close out reds. Discipline to not blow profits in a speculative flutter. Discipline.
I was just about to post on the "Todays Racing" post, but maybe it better here..
I think i counted 33 races yesterday where two or more traded under 2's a few under 1.1 too. There were a number of ways you could have narrowed it down to get better results.
Should have took a lot more than I did, but I always seem to get family visiting on saturdays Grrrr!
not a massive daily total, but considering the effort, Id be happy with half that every day!
Easy to automate, but you need to do something a bit smarter than literally just two under 2's
I think i counted 33 races yesterday where two or more traded under 2's a few under 1.1 too. There were a number of ways you could have narrowed it down to get better results.
Should have took a lot more than I did, but I always seem to get family visiting on saturdays Grrrr!
not a massive daily total, but considering the effort, Id be happy with half that every day!Easy to automate, but you need to do something a bit smarter than literally just two under 2's
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Cheers mate; Although I probably spend more time on betfair than I do on my real job!LeTiss 4pm wrote:Excellent work Peter (especially for a part-timer)
You can't see it from the screen shot (as the P&L is on another BF account), but I had a real lucky trade on Man City yesterday too. I scalped them a few times directly after the everton goal and then left a back bet in expecting to get another three ticks as the price was coming in). Before I exited the trade, city scored
So a nice day all in all!
Been a month since I posted to the thread, so what happened in May? (Insert caveat, I'm an experienced trader)
Before the off and excluding Golf, Tennis and Football (I.e. just looking at racing) I returned just over £20k in May. I had five races where losses exceeded £100. The worst being a loss of £357.
My maximum exposure was £27k, meaning that this was the largest amount needed in my account to pull in that total. Ten open orders for £500 laying at 5.0 would produce an exposure of £20k.
I'm often skipping races nowadays to just focus on the best day and opportunities so May was below what I've often achieved historically. I'll be more focused in June as its usually the best month of the year and with so much going on this year is should be a good month.
Before the off and excluding Golf, Tennis and Football (I.e. just looking at racing) I returned just over £20k in May. I had five races where losses exceeded £100. The worst being a loss of £357.
My maximum exposure was £27k, meaning that this was the largest amount needed in my account to pull in that total. Ten open orders for £500 laying at 5.0 would produce an exposure of £20k.
I'm often skipping races nowadays to just focus on the best day and opportunities so May was below what I've often achieved historically. I'll be more focused in June as its usually the best month of the year and with so much going on this year is should be a good month.
I must be honest; that's still very impressive Peter.Euler wrote:Been a month since I posted to the thread....
Ive done very well on Betfair in the past, but this last 12 months or so has been a real down turn (for me at least). When I weigh up the profits v time spent, Ive recently considered cutting back a lot on my trading and taking more time with the family.
If it weren't for this forum and knowing it was still possible to generate profits like this, i think I may have packed it in by now thinking the good days have gone.
Keep the inspirations coming gents!
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NeilSpence
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:58 am
Hi all,
I am sure it does mean that but Euler are you saying you made £20,000 in one month by pre race scalping??
I am just a very small fish, and not even a fish really but just daring to dream what could be possible. Got to stop going in play somehow first of course.
I am sure it does mean that but Euler are you saying you made £20,000 in one month by pre race scalping??
I am just a very small fish, and not even a fish really but just daring to dream what could be possible. Got to stop going in play somehow first of course.
It's not just scalping, there are many ways to trade. You should explore all of them if you want to go up a gear. I realise I'm at a high level, but it's nice to show what you can do.
Plenty you can also do at small stakes as well. I think people would be surprised how little I use a lot of the time. I have to use small stakes to work in and around the available liquidity in the market. Also, it's all about your average result, not one or two big ones. If you do lots of markets it soon adds up.
Plenty you can also do at small stakes as well. I think people would be surprised how little I use a lot of the time. I have to use small stakes to work in and around the available liquidity in the market. Also, it's all about your average result, not one or two big ones. If you do lots of markets it soon adds up.
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NeilSpence
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:58 am
I can only start on that journey when I stop going in play. I read that you used to do it. What made you stop and what can I do to avoid it. I do it nearly every race....
I truly believe I will make enough money once I stop it as my learning curve is getting hammered every day and I am making good steady progress.
I truly believe I will make enough money once I stop it as my learning curve is getting hammered every day and I am making good steady progress.
When I took advanced driving lessons my instructor kept telling me off for cornering too fast. So he asked me to pull over to a McDonalds.
He came back with a coffee and put it between my legs and then said, now see how you drive around the next corner.
Sometimes the motivation for not doing something comes from raising the stakes.
He came back with a coffee and put it between my legs and then said, now see how you drive around the next corner.
Sometimes the motivation for not doing something comes from raising the stakes.
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NeilSpence
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:58 am
Will paying to go on your cousre solve my problem or do i need to overcome that demon on my own and then come to you for fine tuning?
I think the psychological aspects are probably something that need to be dealt with by the 'button pusher'. Not sure what other forum members think?
I've noticed I can tell people exactly what to do, but often they just will not do it.
I've spent a lot of time in recent years trying to understand the psychology of trading to see if I can short cut the learning process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hu7lTLGk-U
I've noticed I can tell people exactly what to do, but often they just will not do it.
I've spent a lot of time in recent years trying to understand the psychology of trading to see if I can short cut the learning process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hu7lTLGk-U
I used to go in play, years ago, but eventually it p*ssed me off so much that I stopped. Only YOU can stop this happening to YOU.
These days, though I've only been back trading for a few months on small stakes, my signal for whether I am taking too much much risk is whether I feel overly nervous about my money in the market...you know, when your heart starts to beat faster and you feel uncomfortable...that's when I either scratch the trade immediately or trade out for the vast majority of my stake.
If you're pre-race horse trading, set yourself a specific time to get out and do it EVERY time. Some people suggest a spreadsheet to trade you out so you have no choice but, like every aspect of trading, it should be something YOU control yourself.
These days, though I've only been back trading for a few months on small stakes, my signal for whether I am taking too much much risk is whether I feel overly nervous about my money in the market...you know, when your heart starts to beat faster and you feel uncomfortable...that's when I either scratch the trade immediately or trade out for the vast majority of my stake.
If you're pre-race horse trading, set yourself a specific time to get out and do it EVERY time. Some people suggest a spreadsheet to trade you out so you have no choice but, like every aspect of trading, it should be something YOU control yourself.
I would imagine, pretty much every new trader has a spell of going in play at some stage, I know I certainly did.
You have to ask yourself honestly, am I here to be a trader or a gambler because going in play with no predetermined strategy or exit point is most certainly gambling.
Once I had it in my head that I wanted to be 100% a trader I then set about eliminating going in play of which took a little bit of time.
Eventually what did it for me was the realization that unless I got my discipline under control I didn't have a hope in hell of becoming a full time trader.
My mindset then began to change to one where although I would be annoyed at getting a loss I would be pleased with myself that I had taken it on the chin and moved on to the next race.
I still feel like that today at times because sometimes the best thing to do when faced with a loss in a market you've just got wrong is to walk away and on to the next one. Well it is for me anyway, because discipline is one of the things I have to work at most.
It does get easier with practice though.
You have to ask yourself honestly, am I here to be a trader or a gambler because going in play with no predetermined strategy or exit point is most certainly gambling.
Once I had it in my head that I wanted to be 100% a trader I then set about eliminating going in play of which took a little bit of time.
Eventually what did it for me was the realization that unless I got my discipline under control I didn't have a hope in hell of becoming a full time trader.
My mindset then began to change to one where although I would be annoyed at getting a loss I would be pleased with myself that I had taken it on the chin and moved on to the next race.
I still feel like that today at times because sometimes the best thing to do when faced with a loss in a market you've just got wrong is to walk away and on to the next one. Well it is for me anyway, because discipline is one of the things I have to work at most.
It does get easier with practice though.