Trading at random

[Iron]

It was over 9 years, so it works out at something like £20 a week, and although I found trading stressful at times, it was enjoyable overall (which is possibly where I was going wrong!).

With hindsight, if I could have the time again, I would either trade with extreme discipline or find something else to do with my time (as trading is a voracious consumer of time!).

Jeff

[Zenyatta]

In my case, about 8 grand, although I may come back at some point.

Here's a motivational speech for you Jeff; Peter Le might like this one because we know he's into sales; in this famous movie clip, a top-salesmen has come around with some harsh words for losers.

So without further ado, here's the famous Alec Badwin 'brass balls' speech from 'Glengarry Glen Ross'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kZg_ALxEz0

[Iron]

a top-salesmen has come around with some harsh words for losers.

They aren't losers.

Just about every post of yours has left me thinking that you have a negative, defeatist attitude. Your cynicism is practically palpable. If a top pro were to share their winning formula with you, you'd probably dismiss their success as luck, or assume they were hiding something from you, or think you weren't clever enough to make money from it.

There will always be a reason in your mind why the cards are stacked in someone else's favour, and as long as you believe that, it might as well be true...

Jeff

[Euler]

Jeff, I think it may help people put more context into it if you tell them how much you staked over the same period.

[Iron]

On greyhounds and horse races combined - £1.8 million.

As an aside, it's curious to note that you probably turn over in a week what I've turned over in 9 years...

Jeff

Jeff, I think it may help people put more context into it if you tell them how much you staked over the same period.

[marko236]

On greyhounds and horse races combined - £1.8 million.

As an aside, it's curious to note that you probably turn over in a week what I've turned over in 9 years...

Jeff

Jeff, I think it may help people put more context into it if you tell them how much you staked over the same period.

Thats a realy low loss for a staked 1.8 million.

[Iron]

Thanks Marko

It's possible that I beat randomness but narrowly missed out on crossing the line to profitability.

BTW, you could probably knock a fair bit off that loss if I hadn't chased losses.

Jeff

[Euler]

As an aside, it's curious to note that you probably turn over in a week what I've turned over in 9 years...

That's why I only post 'normal' P&L's rather than the really big stuff, because it lacks context. I'll only ever post stuff that I think people could have done with 'normal' stakes.

[marko236]

I'v got a feeling Jeff is just one step away from making good money, he's been doing it for years and should have a good understanding of the markets.

I was making a loss untill i started to trade less and get rid of my bad trades, i don't know how Jeff trades but i'v got a feeling it's along the same line as me.

[Iron]

i don't know how Jeff trades but i'v got a feeling it's along the same line as me.

What makes you think that?

How do you trade, out of interest?

Jeff

[marko236]

When i say you trade the same way i do i mean how i used to trade, i used to trade were the market was trading looking to get a couple of ticks here and there was i winning?? no! why? because thats where all the good traders are like peter webb and theres more like him, i learned to stay away from that zone and pick up small amounts of money in what i call the safe zone.

[Iron]

I'm not sure there is any such thing as the safe zone on Betfair (or a danger zone, for that matter), but good luck.

Jeff

[marko236]

I'v only been doing this for less than a year and i'v had profits for the last 6 months and i'm sure you are a better trader than me.

My advice is good it's upto you if you listen.

[Iron]

You've obviously found a way from profiting from the markets (and reading between the lines, I think I know what you do, but I won't spell it out). However, not everyone will be able to profit from that approach; I wasn't able to get it to work long-term.

So whilst I appreciate you're trying to help, this is a case where a bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. When people give guidelines that can't be expressed in precise, scientific terms, it can result in confusion and bad decisions. It may be that you have a feel for the market that lets you profit from doing what you do, but it might not work for someone else.

Jeff

I'v only been doing this for less than a year and i'v had profits for the last 6 months and i'm sure you are a better trader than me.

My advice is good it's upto you if you listen.

[speakers]

Doesn't the Risk Meter give some idea of when the market is in the 'safe zone'? I haven't really used this much but I do understand that viewing that in conjunction with charting and volume may be a sensible way to get an overview of what may work in the markets and, to avoid insanity, I'm now intending to just record each race and try to recognise patterns and how the action takes place.
It took me 3 years to make a consistent profit when I traded from 2007 to 2009 but I must confess, I was always in the thick of the price action, never used graphs or considered volume, Wom etc and never recorded my trades or even considered my turnover in the markets. Reading that, I'm not actually sure how I managed to make the money I did but I must have had a bot-speed mouse finger and have imbibed some kind of intuition from being active in so many horse markets.
What I'm saying is, everyone has their own agenda and way they'd like to trade and whether it can work or not is reflected in a P&L over time. I realise now that I have to approach the markets from a completely different angle if I am to make it pay again (I've been back for about 2 months). I am also aware that my own stubborness in terms of what I want to do in relation to what the market is actually doing is something that will hold me back if I don't change.