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Derek27
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firlandsfarm wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 2:12 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:19 pm
ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:16 pm
Another day, another reason to be ashamed and embarrassed to be British...

A government amendment to the Illegal Migration Bill appears to give the government 'legislative sanction' to breach international law obligations,

The message for us all is that If you don't like a law then just ignore it. . These aren't Tories they're anarchists.
That's why it's called the Illegal Migration Bill. Tories only break the law "in a limited and specific way", just like rapists and paedophiles. :)
Yeah, I guess in a similar way that "appears" means 100% guaranteed banged to rights, guilty as charged M'Lord and similarly the way the illegal immigrants are presumably claiming France, Italy, Greece etc. are not safe countries! :lol:

My shame and embarrassment is that we don't have the balls to deal with them appropriately.
With all due respect to John Prescott, it's one thing smacking somebody in the mouth, it's another entirely when you're a lawmaker. These guys set the laws that we are obliged to follow. If it inadvertently restricts them from what they desire to do, that's their failure. If they can break the law so can we, which justifies (if any were needed) not purchasing a TV licence. I'm breaking the law in a very limited and specific way. :)
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Derek27
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Some idiot(s) have set fire to a wheelie bin not far from me, leaving a heap of melted plastic. Lock 'em up! ;)
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Derek27
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Wikipedia's generally very good at explaining things with diagrams and graphics but for some reason, when it comes to the qualifying format for major tournaments, they stop short of using a diagram. I can just about follow the format for the UEFA Champions League but reading the CONMEBOL COPA Libertadores/Sudamericana led to a complete brain meltdown!
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firlandsfarm
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:16 pm
greenmark wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 3:00 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:19 pm
Guys, guys you raised this point on the UK Government not following the law and then say the illegal migrants can not follow the law ... doesn't make you as 'bad' as you are claiming the UK Government to be! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Derek27
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firlandsfarm wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:10 pm
ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:16 pm
greenmark wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 3:00 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:19 pm
Guys, guys you raised this point on the UK Government not following the law and then say the illegal migrants can not follow the law ... doesn't make you as 'bad' as you are claiming the UK Government to be! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You've completely lost me there. There's no comparison between breaking rules that somebody else set, and the hypocrisy of setting your own rules and breaking them.
greenmark
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Derek27 wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:47 pm
firlandsfarm wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:10 pm
ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:16 pm
greenmark wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 3:00 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:19 pm
Guys, guys you raised this point on the UK Government not following the law and then say the illegal migrants can not follow the law ... doesn't make you as 'bad' as you are claiming the UK Government to be! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
You've completely lost me there. There's no comparison between breaking rules that somebody else set, and the hypocrisy of setting your own rules and breaking them.
OK firlandsfarm what is the solution? And that isn't a provocative question, I really don't know what the solution is. A friend of mine works for the EU and he has long said the global situation isn't sustainable. Migrants will move away from dictatorships, poverty and climate issues. That's what humans are really rather good at. We should welcome those that make it. They have guts.
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ShaunWhite
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firlandsfarm wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:10 pm
ShaunWhite wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:16 pm
greenmark wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 3:00 pm
Derek27 wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 1:19 pm
Guys, guys you raised this point on the UK Government not following the law and then say the illegal migrants can not follow the law.
I never said that? I just said that people should try to imagine what it's like, if through no fault of your own, you'd been born somewhere that's really shit. Are you going to sit and watch your family suffer or risk life and limb, even break the law to go and try to establish a new life for them? I know what I'd do. A failed application by the only route avaibable to them isn't a reason to treat them disrespectfully.

I can't see any parallels between that and how the actions of an allegedly respected nation's government looks on the world stage.

Sympathy is free choice but a lack of empathy is troubling https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00695/full
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firlandsfarm
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Derek27 wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:47 pm
You've completely lost me there. There's no comparison between breaking rules that somebody else set, and the hypocrisy of setting your own rules and breaking them.
Then let me explain ... Shaun made reference to "the Illegal Migration Bill appears to give the government 'legislative sanction' to breach international law obligations" which I compared to the boat migrants appearing to breach our laws ... I can't see any difference. But I would take your point if the UK Government set International Law!
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firlandsfarm
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ShaunWhite wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:11 am
I never said that? I just said that people should try to imagine what it's like, if through no fault of your own, you'd been born somewhere that's really shit. Are you going to sit and watch your family suffer or risk life and limb, even break the law to go and try to establish a new life for them? I know what I'd do. A failed application by the only route avaibable to them isn't a reason to treat them disrespectfully.

I can't see any parallels between that and how the actions of an allegedly respected nation's government looks on the world stage.

Sympathy is free choice but a lack of empathy is troubling https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00695/full
Well it's a matter of interpretation then Shaun. I've never been disrespectful to them, I just expect them to respect the laws and customs of the country they move to. As for how we are seen on the world stage ... a soft touch is how. Soft touch on migration, soft touch on benefits, etc. as was said here recently who would want to stay in France who provide next to nothing by way of facilities for them when they could come here and enjoy free board & lodgings and be given spending money to pay for their iPhones. I don't hear anyone complaining that France are against the spirit of refugees' rights if not the international law that is apparently making us look so bad!
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Derek27
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firlandsfarm wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2023 7:57 am
Derek27 wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2023 9:47 pm
You've completely lost me there. There's no comparison between breaking rules that somebody else set, and the hypocrisy of setting your own rules and breaking them.
Then let me explain ... Shaun made reference to "the Illegal Migration Bill appears to give the government 'legislative sanction' to breach international law obligations" which I compared to the boat migrants appearing to breach our laws ... I can't see any difference. But I would take your point if the UK Government set International Law!
That doesn't explain much, you were laughing at Shaun, greenmark and me over what Shaun said.
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Derek27
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firlandsfarm wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2023 8:27 am
ShaunWhite wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2023 2:11 am
I never said that? I just said that people should try to imagine what it's like, if through no fault of your own, you'd been born somewhere that's really shit. Are you going to sit and watch your family suffer or risk life and limb, even break the law to go and try to establish a new life for them? I know what I'd do. A failed application by the only route avaibable to them isn't a reason to treat them disrespectfully.

I can't see any parallels between that and how the actions of an allegedly respected nation's government looks on the world stage.

Sympathy is free choice but a lack of empathy is troubling https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 ... 00695/full
Well it's a matter of interpretation then Shaun. I've never been disrespectful to them, I just expect them to respect the laws and customs of the country they move to. As for how we are seen on the world stage ... a soft touch is how. Soft touch on migration, soft touch on benefits, etc. as was said here recently who would want to stay in France who provide next to nothing by way of facilities for them when they could come here and enjoy free board & lodgings and be given spending money to pay for their iPhones. I don't hear anyone complaining that France are against the spirit of refugees' rights if not the international law that is apparently making us look so bad!
Anyone who thinks we're a soft touch on benefits is living in cuckoo land and probably never claimed benefit.

That may have been the case under Thatcher when unemployment was accepted (a price worth paying according to Abnormal Lamont), but I know from experience life got progressively harder from the late nineties, even under Labour, to the point where claimants are being sanctioned for not being in two places at the same time.

When I was found to be fit for work following an Atos medical assessment, I'll never forget a particular line in the so-called medical report.

This evidences that even on a bad day, he is well motivated enough to drink coffee, smoke cigarettes safely and go to the shops to buy food and alcohol. :shock: :shock:

And here are a few more Atos classics:-

Can manage light gardening for 2-3 minutes.

Can sit for 2 hours for up to 3 hours watching TV.

Is able to cook roast husband for Sunday lunch.
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ShaunWhite
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firlandsfarm wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2023 7:57 am
But I would take your point if the UK Government set International Law!
We'll have to settle for a 0-0 draw firlandsfarm, neither of us will change the other, but as my last kick of the match.....

We are repressented in the bodies that set international, (and previously European) law such as the court of human rights and we certainly didn't have our arm twisted when we agreed to it originally. It's like the EU argument that laws are imposed when we were actually sat around the table that created them.

As Derek says nobody who complains about benefits has ever known anyone trying to live on them. And it's a well known fact that people moving here are net contributers. They aren't coming here to sit and do nothing, they start businesses, they look after their own elderly and aren't scared of hard work.

People really don't come here because we're a soft touch (because we aren't) they come because we're a country with a reputation for tolerance ( :roll:) fairness and opportunity, and we speak English which is the global 2nd language. They don't want food accommodation and pocket money they want to work and stand on their own feet.

Joe Biden was right when he said Britain can't be trusted.

Beyond that you don't care what I think, I don't care what you think and the government doesn't care what either of us think. Have a good day. 👍
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firlandsfarm
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Derek27 wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:36 am
That doesn't explain much, you were laughing at Shaun, greenmark and me over what Shaun said.
No, I was laughing at the irony that you were all complaining that the UK Government should break international law because they don't like it but seemingly supporting the boat people over them breaking UK law when I suspect they also don't like it. And I'm happy with my interpretation.
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firlandsfarm
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Derek27 wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2023 11:52 am
Anyone who thinks we're a soft touch on benefits is living in cuckoo land and probably never claimed benefit.
We are a soft touch because someone can force their way into this country without permission and as I said are given free accommodation, free food and spending money when it has not been proven they have a valid case without contributing a penny towards the economy they are milking is evidence of a soft touch
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ShaunWhite
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Easy solution, for each hard working migrant we let in we'll send one of our lazy thick ones to their county. No more soft touch.
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