Betfair's relationship with traders

[stueytrader]

Though surely traditional bookmaking is also a saturated and massively competitive market?

At least the BF exchange has some elements of USP about it in comparison.

I agree, and I think that's why anyone that's already established should focus on maintaining that dominance or risk losing it.
Again I agree, but a USP on it's own isn't much use unless people actual want it, and it's a USP that's been around for 20 yrs so it's hardly untested.

PP should be given a lot of credit for getting involved in BF, but the fact the other bookies didn't snap up the other exchanges tells me it's not an investment that a clear cut decision.

Being market 'insiders' nobody here will have a cold unbiased opinion, and it's not exactly a community of business giants so even though we're all entitled to our opinions it's unlikely that those opinions would translate into much business success. Being a successful trader doesn't qualify you as an expert in running an exchange any more than being a winning driver qualifies you in the field of manufacturing cars. If it did then Peter would have returned from the USA with his pockets bulging with investment dollars and WebbWeb would be sponsoring the Grand National.

I can see some of that as certainly true, but I feel in that line of thought we are guilty of blaming lack of current exchange success on the wrong reasons. It isn't that the concept can't be massively popular - it was and has been proven as such in the past.

It was a series of different issues with BF that reduced it IMO, not that exchanges can't be popular. Let's face it, if stupid things like casinos can be popular I'm pretty sure an exchange could, again.

There is no specific reason an exchange could not be a booming success with the right fundamentals and ideals behind it, similar to what Peter suggested above. Whether that would still be BF, or one of the others taking over from a dead BF, or a new company running BF or their own brand, would not really matter to me. But I see no inherent problem with the exchange idea itself. It's already been proven historically, if only they hadn't messed with it so much.

[ShaunWhite]

Let's face it, if stupid things like casinos can be popular ....

Nail on the head, people daft enough to regularly lose enough money to keep us fed like things simple. People smart enough to use an exchange either end up being net takers or realise they shouldn't keep trying for very long.

Smart enough to try, but dumb enough to keep losing, is a small section on the Venn diagram. Especially when you add in all the other obstacles like the investment in time to learn, interest to start with, opportunity for the peace to concentrate, and money to invest etc. I don't see where huge numbers of losing exchange players will come from. (As 95% of customers are losers, they're the ones I'm more interested in finding). I'm also not convinced people bet because they think they'll win long term, I feel most bet for the entertainment and the buzz. A casino or bingo or bookies acca bonus delivers that and an exchange is all a bit serious and hardwork.

[Derek27]

I just had to look up 'venn diagram' - I knew I heard of it back in my school days.

[stueytrader]

Let's face it, if stupid things like casinos can be popular ....

Nail on the head, people daft enough to regularly lose enough money to keep us fed like things simple. People smart enough to use an exchange either end up being net takers or realise they shouldn't keep trying for very long.

Smart enough to try, but dumb enough to keep losing, is a small section on the Venn diagram. Especially when you add in all the other obstacles like the investment in time to learn, interest to start with, opportunity for the peace to concentrate, and money to invest etc. I don't see where huge numbers of losing exchange players will come from. (As 95% of customers are losers, they're the ones I'm more interested in finding). I'm also not convinced people bet because they think they'll win long term, I feel most bet for the entertainment and the buzz. A casino or bingo or bookies acca bonus delivers that and an exchange is all a bit serious and hardwork.

I hear what you are saying Shaun, exchanges are certainly a specific type of market that need to look for a specific advertising and population of players. I'm still not convinced that the masses that used to play exchanges were particularly 'smart' to begin with in the early days though (as you suggest above). There were plenty mug players around, and there's a massive market out there that want to gamble so even a tiny proportion moving back to exchange playing could make a bustling exchange.
End of the day I guess this debate may all be moot, given poor advertising by BF (my original point).

[ShaunWhite]

I like your confidence stuey, I'd rather you were right than me on this one.

[spreadbetting]

You only need to read a few trading forums to realise the tagline "Smart Minds" was only ever marketing spin

[stueytrader]

I like your confidence stuey, I'd rather you were right than me on this one.

Indeed, if so it would benefit pretty much all of us on here for sure!

Like SB suggests above, I don't think there was a lack of the 'casino types' using exchanges earlier in it's history. So that is not impossible. Getting them again, as a newer market, is the bigger issue and challenge and question ultimately.

[LinusP]

I think betfair AUS are doing a great job at advertising to the smart bettor with some excellent articles and guides:

https://www.betfair.com.au/hub/