Israel/Palestine conflict

[Archery1969]

There is no nice way of killing anything, be it an animal or person. I have done both on multiple continents.

In the UK, deer stalking is popular, especially in Scotland. You don’t stun it first, you hope your shot is true. But forget what you see on TV or films, people and animals don’t get shot and just drop to the ground, especially animals. I have and seen many people shoot a dear and it can run for hundred of yards, some never found after.

I’ve also witnessed what happens in a so called politically correct animal slaughter house. Trust me, that’s not nice either.

But, if you want to and are happy about eating meat, then you have accept, rightly or wrongly, that it been killed.

[Kai]

There is no nice way of killing anything, be it an animal or person. I have done both on multiple continents.

Weird flex but OK.

And that's me done poking fun at you Archie ole pal, would rather stay alive to see more continents myself

[Archery1969]

There is no nice way of killing anything, be it an animal or person. I have done both on multiple continents.

Weird flex but OK.

And that's me done poking fun at you Archie ole pal, would rather stay alive to see more continents myself

You will remain alive for decades to come.

[greenmark]

I guess I would need ti debate with a halal and non-halal slautghterman (person).
I, of course, don't want animals to suffer. But the bottom line is the meat you eat is the result of slaughter and too many live in awful conditions until they are slaughtered.
Focussing on halal seems redundant to me. I will never give up being a meat eater, but I recognise the process of putting meat on my plate is brutal.
I think if you believe halal is unacceptablle you need to stop eating meat. All slaughter is brutal. Stunning pre-slaughter is wafer thin justification.
One of my bosses became a project manager went to a chicken processing plant. Never ate chicken again.

Well there's two questions. Should you even do it in the first place, and if so do you make effort to reduce suffering? To really debate it one has to go and jump ethics forums, etc...

The thing is it doesn't have to be brutal. We have the capability of doing it in a nice way....If its not, it's probably being done wrong for capitalist or religious reasons rather than moral ones.

In the end I guess it's off topic. My main gripe is religion dictating how it should be done without the moral question being analysed. I.e. It's 'in the writings' and that's good enough thought on the subject...It flows into why people get into violent conflict.

Agreed - off topic. Apologies for going off at a tangent. I do it a lot but am working on this flaw. Amongst others.

[firlandsfarm]

I actually feel guilty that we've abandoned the Afghans to the Taliban. But I didn't have to face the Taliban trying to kill me every day.

The Taliban are Afghans!

Of course but they are a religious sect that seized power by force.
I cannot accept their right to ruin the lives of women. The Taliban are a blot on the face of humanity.

The women in my family were at least as mentally/emotionally/intellectually as strong as the men.
To sideline 50% of the population for relgious/cultural idealogy is a concept that deserves to be challenged.
To deprive girls of education and qualified professional women of employment is just so insane I can't even describe it.
Well, I can but it would involve exasperation and expletives.

I agree with most of that Greenmark, I was just referring to Talibans are Afghans.

[conduirez]

The Taliban are Afghans!

Of course but they are a religious sect that seized power by force.
I cannot accept their right to ruin the lives of women. The Taliban are a blot on the face of humanity.

The women in my family were at least as mentally/emotionally/intellectually as strong as the men.
To sideline 50% of the population for relgious/cultural idealogy is a concept that deserves to be challenged.
To deprive girls of education and qualified professional women of employment is just so insane I can't even describe it.
Well, I can but it would involve exasperation and expletives.

I agree with most of that Greenmark, I was just referring to Talibans are Afghans.

I know Afghanistan has one of the highest inbreeding coefficient in the world, I think this is only beaten in Pakistan, this is caused by consanguineous marriages, forced upon women by their families. The problem is growing in areas of the UK as well through immigration in ethnic communities. Women should be able to select their own partners wherever they are.

I am sure from my readings that nowhere in the Quran does it allow for a woman to be forced into marriage, in fact there are certain passages that forbid it. The Quran also tells all believers of the importance of seeking knowledge, it does not state a gender, it says all believers. So this is just local males asserting their rights over women, and brainwashed mothers following along. It is so sad, because Muslim women can show their true worth in the western world.

[Kai]

The problem is growing in areas of the UK as well

'Merica too I hear

[conduirez]

The problem is growing in areas of the UK as well

'Merica too I hear

Nice stereotyping, but USA is well down the list below the UK.

This is worth a look at for inbreeding coefficients if anyone is interested.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

[Kai]

Nice stereotyping, but USA is well down the list below the UK.

This is worth a look at for inbreeding coefficients if anyone is interested.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

My bad, forgive my ignorance

So judging by those numbers you're saying that's actually a very normal daily conversation line between 2 Pakistani blokes

That is crazy

[conduirez]

Nice stereotyping, but USA is well down the list below the UK.

This is worth a look at for inbreeding coefficients if anyone is interested.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

My bad, forgive my ignorance

So judging by those numbers you're saying that's actually a very normal daily conversation line between 2 Pakistani blokes

That is crazy

It is unfortunately.

[greenmark]

Of course but they are a religious sect that seized power by force.
I cannot accept their right to ruin the lives of women. The Taliban are a blot on the face of humanity.

The women in my family were at least as mentally/emotionally/intellectually as strong as the men.
To sideline 50% of the population for relgious/cultural idealogy is a concept that deserves to be challenged.
To deprive girls of education and qualified professional women of employment is just so insane I can't even describe it.
Well, I can but it would involve exasperation and expletives.

I agree with most of that Greenmark, I was just referring to Talibans are Afghans.

I know Afghanistan has one of the highest inbreeding coefficient in the world, I think this is only beaten in Pakistan, this is caused by consanguineous marriages, forced upon women by their families. The problem is growing in areas of the UK as well through immigration in ethnic communities. Women should be able to select their own partners wherever they are.

I am sure from my readings that nowhere in the Quran does it allow for a woman to be forced into marriage, in fact there are certain passages that forbid it. The Quran also tells all believers of the importance of seeking knowledge, it does not state a gender, it says all believers. So this is just local males asserting their rights over women, and brainwashed mothers following along. It is so sad, because Muslim women can show their true worth in the western world.

You've read the Quran? I admire your wish to explore. I tried but tbh it was like reading the bible or Mein kampf. Someone from the past ramming their warped views down my throat. And all three have been used as a justification fro truly terrible acts.

[conduirez]

I agree with most of that Greenmark, I was just referring to Talibans are Afghans.

I know Afghanistan has one of the highest inbreeding coefficient in the world, I think this is only beaten in Pakistan, this is caused by consanguineous marriages, forced upon women by their families. The problem is growing in areas of the UK as well through immigration in ethnic communities. Women should be able to select their own partners wherever they are.

I am sure from my readings that nowhere in the Quran does it allow for a woman to be forced into marriage, in fact there are certain passages that forbid it. The Quran also tells all believers of the importance of seeking knowledge, it does not state a gender, it says all believers. So this is just local males asserting their rights over women, and brainwashed mothers following along. It is so sad, because Muslim women can show their true worth in the western world.

You've read the Quran? I admire your wish to explore. I tried but tbh it was like reading the bible or Mein kampf. Someone from the past ramming their warped views down my throat. And all three have been used as a justification fro truly terrible acts.

I think I know the Quran as well as the bible, I have quite a family history which ties me to Egypt, I am a quarter Egyptian.

My Grandfather was in the British army stationed in Egypt from 1919 to 1924, the last two years was training Egyptian soldiers.

My grandfather married my Grandmother in 1924, promptly 90% of her family disowned her, there was a lot of independence resentment at the time, she also was not fully accepted by my Grandfathers family, I was told by my mother.

My grandmother although converting to Christianity was a very intelligent woman and would converse with me about both the Bible and the Quran, she got me to read both and asked me what I thought and would guide me along the way. I miss her so much.

I was baptised a Christian, but my leanings are now more to atheism, but I look at both the Bible and Quran as guides to living a better life.

[greenmark]

I know Afghanistan has one of the highest inbreeding coefficient in the world, I think this is only beaten in Pakistan, this is caused by consanguineous marriages, forced upon women by their families. The problem is growing in areas of the UK as well through immigration in ethnic communities. Women should be able to select their own partners wherever they are.

I am sure from my readings that nowhere in the Quran does it allow for a woman to be forced into marriage, in fact there are certain passages that forbid it. The Quran also tells all believers of the importance of seeking knowledge, it does not state a gender, it says all believers. So this is just local males asserting their rights over women, and brainwashed mothers following along. It is so sad, because Muslim women can show their true worth in the western world.

You've read the Quran? I admire your wish to explore. I tried but tbh it was like reading the bible or Mein kampf. Someone from the past ramming their warped views down my throat. And all three have been used as a justification fro truly terrible acts.

I think I know the Quran as well as the bible, I have quite a family history which ties me to Egypt, I am a quarter Egyptian.

My Grandfather was in the British army stationed in Egypt from 1919 to 1924, the last two years was training Egyptian soldiers.

My grandfather married my Grandmother in 1924, promptly 90% of her family disowned her, there was a lot of independence resentment at the time, she also was not fully accepted by my Grandfathers family, I was told by my mother.

My grandmother although converting to Christianity was a very intelligent woman and would converse with me about both the Bible and the Quran, she got me to read both and asked me what I thought and would guide me along the way. I miss her so much.

I was baptised a Christian, but my leanings are now more to atheism, but I look at both the Bible and Quran as guides to living a better life.

Apologes if I offended you.
All of these religious texts have good things to say. I just don't believe in the religious notion of a supreme being (that they all claim as their own).
But I willingly accept there a lot of people (maybe not enough) that live their lives to the very best of the religious tenets.
I just try to be a good person. But I've explored those texts and I felt like I was being dictated to. I can't explain any further than that.
Perhaps I am more existentialist than I thought.

[conduirez]

You've read the Quran? I admire your wish to explore. I tried but tbh it was like reading the bible or Mein kampf. Someone from the past ramming their warped views down my throat. And all three have been used as a justification fro truly terrible acts.

I think I know the Quran as well as the bible, I have quite a family history which ties me to Egypt, I am a quarter Egyptian.

My Grandfather was in the British army stationed in Egypt from 1919 to 1924, the last two years was training Egyptian soldiers.

My grandfather married my Grandmother in 1924, promptly 90% of her family disowned her, there was a lot of independence resentment at the time, she also was not fully accepted by my Grandfathers family, I was told by my mother.

My grandmother although converting to Christianity was a very intelligent woman and would converse with me about both the Bible and the Quran, she got me to read both and asked me what I thought and would guide me along the way. I miss her so much.

I was baptised a Christian, but my leanings are now more to atheism, but I look at both the Bible and Quran as guides to living a better life.

Apologes if I offended you.
All of these religious texts have good things to say. I just don't believe in the religious notion of a supreme being (that they all claim as their own).
But I willingly accept there a lot of people (maybe not enough) that live their lives to the very best of the religious tenets.
I just try to be a good person. But I've explored those texts and I felt like I was being dictated to. I can't explain any further than that.
Perhaps I am more existentialist than I thought.

Absolutely no offense has been taken.

Unfortunately these texts both the bible and Quran have undergone many translations and personal inputs by the authors, which always deter from the original meaning. For instance just look up King James and Sahih, these are just interpretations of the texts.

These interpretations of the texts in turn allows fanatics on both sides to cherry pick the texts that they agree with and ignore the original texts. People in Christianity all know the ten commandments in the Quran there are the Aayaat verses, we choose to either follow them or not, but for those who say 'thou shall not kill' is easy to follow, but how many married people on here can say they have not sh*gged another woman or man. Regardless of the religion these rules are easy to break and we end up with extremist like the Talliban.

[greenmark]

I think I know the Quran as well as the bible, I have quite a family history which ties me to Egypt, I am a quarter Egyptian.

My Grandfather was in the British army stationed in Egypt from 1919 to 1924, the last two years was training Egyptian soldiers.

My grandfather married my Grandmother in 1924, promptly 90% of her family disowned her, there was a lot of independence resentment at the time, she also was not fully accepted by my Grandfathers family, I was told by my mother.

My grandmother although converting to Christianity was a very intelligent woman and would converse with me about both the Bible and the Quran, she got me to read both and asked me what I thought and would guide me along the way. I miss her so much.

I was baptised a Christian, but my leanings are now more to atheism, but I look at both the Bible and Quran as guides to living a better life.

Apologes if I offended you.
All of these religious texts have good things to say. I just don't believe in the religious notion of a supreme being (that they all claim as their own).
But I willingly accept there a lot of people (maybe not enough) that live their lives to the very best of the religious tenets.
I just try to be a good person. But I've explored those texts and I felt like I was being dictated to. I can't explain any further than that.
Perhaps I am more existentialist than I thought.

Absolutely no offense has been taken.

Unfortunately these texts both the bible and Quran have undergone many translations and personal inputs by the authors, which always deter from the original meaning. For instance just look up King James and Sahih, these are just interpretations of the texts.

These interpretations of the texts in turn allows fanatics on both sides to cherry pick the texts that they agree with and ignore the original texts. People in Christianity all know the ten commandments in the Quran there are the Aayaat verses, we choose to either follow them or not, but for those who say 'thou shall not kill' is easy to follow, but how many married people on here can say they have not sh*gged another woman or man. Regardless of the religion these rules are easy to break and we end up with extremist like the Talliban.

Sounds like you've had a more intense religious journey than me.

Your point about interpretation for gain really resonates with me. All those texts are dripping with worthy ideas. But we have loonies in the world that choose the bits that justify terrible acts. I used to believe all ths stuff would be sorted out with time and intellectual progress.
How wrong I was.

If you step back, what have Hamas, Hezbolah and Israel inflicted on millions. All 3 claim religious credentials and look at the total chaos they've created. They aren't religious at all.