Excuses, Excuses, Excuses

[firlandsfarm]

Farmers are an impossibility for any politician Archery;

When the summer is too dry the potatoes are tiny and the spud farmers want government money while the corn reaches 8ft.

When the summer is too wet the spuds are the size of pineapples but the corn is only 2ft tall and the corn farmers want government funds.

When the summer is standard both are regular harvests but supermarket prices say they need government funds or they'll be operating at a loss.

As someone who takes an interest in farming I think you are just about spot on Dublin.

[Derek27]

I like the slogan, food doesn't grow on shelves.

Farmers planning to withhold meat and dairy products from supermarkets for a week in protest.

[Dublin_Flyer]

Farmers sell meat at prime weight not time, plus they'd be fucked anyway without the slaughterhouses on their side. Dairy farmers nearly always have an in-house pasteurization system so they can store days loads of milk before the tanker collects it.

Any talk of farmers protests is usually bollox because they're at the mercy of the slaughterhouse or big milk supply chains. They'll get half a days coverage on Sky News and a segment on BBC and be forgotten about in 24 hours.

[sionascaig]

Are there not some positives to this farmer inheritance taxation fiasco. e.g.

- puts off those just seeking a way to avoid inheritance tax from buying land
- land prices should fall
- more land should be on the market
- young farmers more likely to be able to afford their own farm
- encourages 1st time farmer currently "locked out" from farming as land mainly owned in "family" estates
- encourages better inheritance tax planning, e.g. handing over/ selling chunks of land to next generation earlier

All Stammer has done is reverse a Thatcher tax give away for rich landowners from the 1980's...

It is definitely possible to argue that farmers are very well treated inheritance tax wise compared to the rest of us...

Meanwhile King Charlie & Prince Willie still wont have to pay inheritance tax, income tax, capital gains tax or corporation tax on most of their vast (private) land holdings & business interests...

[firlandsfarm]

Are there not some positives to this farmer inheritance taxation fiasco. e.g.

- puts off those just seeking a way to avoid inheritance tax from buying land
- land prices should fall
- more land should be on the market
- young farmers more likely to be able to afford their own farm
- encourages 1st time farmer currently "locked out" from farming as land mainly owned in "family" estates
- encourages better inheritance tax planning, e.g. handing over/ selling chunks of land to next generation earlier

All Stammer has done is reverse a Thatcher tax give away for rich landowners from the 1980's...

It is definitely possible to argue that farmers are very well treated inheritance tax wise compared to the rest of us...

Meanwhile King Charlie & Prince Willie still wont have to pay inheritance tax, income tax, capital gains tax or corporation tax on most of their vast (private) land holdings & business interests...

Oh dear, do I detect a hint of jealousy re Charles and William? You are correct to say they "won't have to pay" but ignore that they voluntarily pay taxes. To stop the story short at the point of best advantage is a common trait among Luvvies.

Also you say "puts off those just seeking a way to avoid inheritance tax from buying land" ... simply buying land does not allow the owner to qualify for IHT relief/exemption ... it has to be run as a viable farm. If the 'farm' does not make a profit over a 5 year period then it ceases to be a farm in HMRC's eyes and loses it's exemptions. And you cannot just rent the land to another farmer for then it would be a rental property and not a farm in your estate ... you have to actively run a farm where you are responsible for it's profitability.

Generally small farms do not make a profit sufficient to support a family at an acceptable level. It is considered that an arable farm needs more than 250 hectares (600+ acres) to return reasonable levels of profit. At £5,000 per acre (that's half the current going rate of £10,000 to take into account your suggestion that land values will fall) a 'young farmer' would need £3 million to buy the land. Then add the cost of the machinery to operate the farm and don't forget the 'premium' to the purchase price if the property includes accommodation. And outbuilding could need upgrading, renewing or expanding. Realistically the only way a son/daughter can expect to be farmers is to inherit from mum & dad. But if they need to sell part of the farm to pay the IHT will it remain viable? As for estate planning to avoid IHT and as someone who used to advise farmers I can tell you they are very reluctant to pass on the ownership in their lifetimes often because farmers don't retire until they become incapacitated ... it's in the blood.

As we are finding out with much that Labour are wanting to do they either just haven't thought it through or if they are aware of such figures they must be taking action with some intent!

[firlandsfarm]

"... the UK sent an incredible 470 delegates to the UN climate change summit in Azerbaijan...

... With Baku almost 2,500 miles from London, the British delegation is estimated to have collectively racked up 2.3 million air miles for return trips. Each return flight pumps out at least 0.7 tons of CO2 per passenger, making the delegation’s flights’ total carbon footprint at least 338 tons of CO2."

Good to see they cut the carbon footprint to a minimum then!

[ForFolksSake]

Are there not some positives to this farmer inheritance taxation fiasco. e.g.

- puts off those just seeking a way to avoid inheritance tax from buying land
- land prices should fall
- more land should be on the market
- young farmers more likely to be able to afford their own farm
- encourages 1st time farmer currently "locked out" from farming as land mainly owned in "family" estates
- encourages better inheritance tax planning, e.g. handing over/ selling chunks of land to next generation earlier

All Stammer has done is reverse a Thatcher tax give away for rich landowners from the 1980's...

It is definitely possible to argue that farmers are very well treated inheritance tax wise compared to the rest of us...

Meanwhile King Charlie & Prince Willie still wont have to pay inheritance tax, income tax, capital gains tax or corporation tax on most of their vast (private) land holdings & business interests...

Oh dear, do I detect a hint of jealousy re Charles and William? You are correct to say they "won't have to pay" but ignore that they voluntarily pay taxes. To stop the story short at the point of best advantage is a common trait among Luvvies.

Also you say "puts off those just seeking a way to avoid inheritance tax from buying land" ... simply buying land does not allow the owner to qualify for IHT relief/exemption ... it has to be run as a viable farm. If the 'farm' does not make a profit over a 5 year period then it ceases to be a farm in HMRC's eyes and loses it's exemptions. And you cannot just rent the land to another farmer for then it would be a rental property and not a farm in your estate ... you have to actively run a farm where you are responsible for it's profitability.

Generally small farms do not make a profit sufficient to support a family at an acceptable level. It is considered that an arable farm needs more than 250 hectares (600+ acres) to return reasonable levels of profit. At £5,000 per acre (that's half the current going rate of £10,000 to take into account your suggestion that land values will fall) a 'young farmer' would need £3 million to buy the land. Then add the cost of the machinery to operate the farm and don't forget the 'premium' to the purchase price if the property includes accommodation. And outbuilding could need upgrading, renewing or expanding. Realistically the only way a son/daughter can expect to be farmers is to inherit from mum & dad. But if they need to sell part of the farm to pay the IHT will it remain viable? As for estate planning to avoid IHT and as someone who used to advise farmers I can tell you they are very reluctant to pass on the ownership in their lifetimes often because farmers don't retire until they become incapacitated ... it's in the blood.

As we are finding out with much that Labour are wanting to do they either just haven't thought it through or if they are aware of such figures they must be taking action with some intent!

This is just the start of a labour government moving away from relying on the taxation of labour by increasing taxes on consumption, wealth and capital gains.

This is going to affect more and more of us in the 'private' sector over the coming years - starting with the winter fuel allowance and the Farmers inheritance tax

C'est La Vie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ5cg0KNKH0

[sionascaig]

Oh dear, do I detect a hint of jealousy re Charles and William? You are correct to say they "won't have to pay" but ignore that they voluntarily pay taxes. To stop the story short at the point of best advantage is a common trait among Luvvies.

Some well made points & I certainly didn't intend arguing for or against this particular policy.

I do rate food security for the UK to be high on the list of priorities for any UK gov and if that means we (the tax payers) pay a price for that so be it.

Re Charlie & Willie... They "voluntarily" pay an income tax. They do not however pay any of the other taxes (gains, corporation, inheritance) making it almost impossible for other "businesses" to compete with them.

And just to be clear, we are talking about "private" assets here.

It is not jealousy but disgust that no government has addressed this gross inequality.

To stop the story short at the point of best advantage is a common trait among Royal Luvvies.

[Archery1969]

Oh dear, do I detect a hint of jealousy re Charles and William? You are correct to say they "won't have to pay" but ignore that they voluntarily pay taxes. To stop the story short at the point of best advantage is a common trait among Luvvies.

Some well made points & I certainly didn't intend arguing for or against this particular policy.

I do rate food security for the UK to be high on the list of priorities for any UK gov and if that means we (the tax payers) pay a price for that so be it.

Re Charlie & Willie... They "voluntarily" pay an income tax. They do not however pay any of the other taxes (gains, corporation, inheritance) making it almost impossible for other "businesses" to compete with them.

And just to be clear, we are talking about "private" assets here.

It is not jealousy but disgust that no government has addressed this gross inequality.

To stop the story short at the point of best advantage is a common trait among Royal Luvvies.

Source: https://www.regionalstudies.org/

Recent attempts to measure the size of the impact of the royal family on UK tourism have estimated the capital value of UK monarchy as a business to be £67.5 billion (up from £44 billion in 2012) and the annual contribution to the UK economy to be £1.76 billion.

The current Royal Family cost to the UK Treasury is £86.3 million per annum. However, Anti-monarchy group Republic has said the true cost is £510 million per annum.

So based on the above, at best the UK Treasury gets a 22:1 ratio or at worst a 3:1 ratio in its favour. Either way, still a good return.

[sionascaig]

Source: https://www.regionalstudies.org/

Recent attempts to measure the size of the impact of the royal family on UK tourism have estimated the capital value of UK monarchy as a business to be £67.5 billion (up from £44 billion in 2012) and the annual contribution to the UK economy to be £1.76 billion.

The current Royal Family cost to the UK Treasury is £86.3 million per annum. However, Anti-monarchy group Republic has said the true cost is £510 million per annum.

So based on the above, at best the UK Treasury gets a 22:1 ratio or at worst a 3:1 ratio in its favour. Either way, still a good return.

Yes, but no one is suggesting we don't have a Royal family. Quite happy for the zoo to continue...

Just no need for head of Royal family to be:

- Head of state
- Hand out honours and awards to his family
- Avoid paying tax on private assets
- Get a cut on Crown estate proceeds

And give shelter to sex offenders...

Could defo save bucketloads but still get a economic benefits from keeping the zoo open.

PS: The figures above almost certainly do not include cost of Royal security as this is a national secret apparently...

[ForFolksSake]

Are there not some positives to this farmer inheritance taxation fiasco. e.g.

- puts off those just seeking a way to avoid inheritance tax from buying land
- land prices should fall
- more land should be on the market
- young farmers more likely to be able to afford their own farm
- encourages 1st time farmer currently "locked out" from farming as land mainly owned in "family" estates
- encourages better inheritance tax planning, e.g. handing over/ selling chunks of land to next generation earlier

All Stammer has done is reverse a Thatcher tax give away for rich landowners from the 1980's...

It is definitely possible to argue that farmers are very well treated inheritance tax wise compared to the rest of us...

Meanwhile King Charlie & Prince Willie still wont have to pay inheritance tax, income tax, capital gains tax or corporation tax on most of their vast (private) land holdings & business interests...

Oh dear, do I detect a hint of jealousy re Charles and William? You are correct to say they "won't have to pay" but ignore that they voluntarily pay taxes. To stop the story short at the point of best advantage is a common trait among Luvvies.

Also you say "puts off those just seeking a way to avoid inheritance tax from buying land" ... simply buying land does not allow the owner to qualify for IHT relief/exemption ... it has to be run as a viable farm. If the 'farm' does not make a profit over a 5 year period then it ceases to be a farm in HMRC's eyes and loses it's exemptions. And you cannot just rent the land to another farmer for then it would be a rental property and not a farm in your estate ... you have to actively run a farm where you are responsible for it's profitability.

Generally small farms do not make a profit sufficient to support a family at an acceptable level. It is considered that an arable farm needs more than 250 hectares (600+ acres) to return reasonable levels of profit. At £5,000 per acre (that's half the current going rate of £10,000 to take into account your suggestion that land values will fall) a 'young farmer' would need £3 million to buy the land. Then add the cost of the machinery to operate the farm and don't forget the 'premium' to the purchase price if the property includes accommodation. And outbuilding could need upgrading, renewing or expanding. Realistically the only way a son/daughter can expect to be farmers is to inherit from mum & dad. But if they need to sell part of the farm to pay the IHT will it remain viable? As for estate planning to avoid IHT and as someone who used to advise farmers I can tell you they are very reluctant to pass on the ownership in their lifetimes often because farmers don't retire until they become incapacitated ... it's in the blood.

As we are finding out with much that Labour are wanting to do they either just haven't thought it through or if they are aware of such figures they must be taking action with some intent!

This is just the start of a labour government moving away from relying on the taxation of labour by increasing taxes on consumption, wealth and capital gains.

This is going to affect more and more of us in the 'private' sector over the coming years - starting with the winter fuel allowance and the Farmers inheritance tax

C'est La Vie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ5cg0KNKH0

I forgot to mention Rachel Reeves's inheritance tax changes will see public sector escape unscathed while others 'penalised'

The 40 per cent tax charge will apply to retirement incomes left to loved ones by retirees who used their pension pot to buy an annuity.

However, public sector workers with defined benefit pensions will escape the tax raid entirely.

What a f*ckn liberty

[sionascaig]

"... the UK sent an incredible 470 delegates to the UN climate change summit in Azerbaijan...

... With Baku almost 2,500 miles from London, the British delegation is estimated to have collectively racked up 2.3 million air miles for return trips. Each return flight pumps out at least 0.7 tons of CO2 per passenger, making the delegation’s flights’ total carbon footprint at least 338 tons of CO2."

Good to see they cut the carbon footprint to a minimum then!

Good to see you and Greta on the same side )

[conduirez]

"... the UK sent an incredible 470 delegates to the UN climate change summit in Azerbaijan...

... With Baku almost 2,500 miles from London, the British delegation is estimated to have collectively racked up 2.3 million air miles for return trips. Each return flight pumps out at least 0.7 tons of CO2 per passenger, making the delegation’s flights’ total carbon footprint at least 338 tons of CO2."

Good to see they cut the carbon footprint to a minimum then!

Good to see you and Greta on the same side )

Greta is almost 22, 33% of the worlds population is under 20. How long before the youngsters start blaming her and her age group for the Climate Crises.

[ForFolksSake]

"... the UK sent an incredible 470 delegates to the UN climate change summit in Azerbaijan...

... With Baku almost 2,500 miles from London, the British delegation is estimated to have collectively racked up 2.3 million air miles for return trips. Each return flight pumps out at least 0.7 tons of CO2 per passenger, making the delegation’s flights’ total carbon footprint at least 338 tons of CO2."

Good to see they cut the carbon footprint to a minimum then!

Good to see you and Greta on the same side )

Greta is almost 22, 33% of the worlds population is under 20. How long before the youngsters start blaming her and her age group for the Climate Crises.

Where did you fly back from recently

[conduirez]

Good to see you and Greta on the same side )

Greta is almost 22, 33% of the worlds population is under 20. How long before the youngsters start blaming her and her age group for the Climate Crises.

Where did you fly back from recently

Why do you want to clip my ticket?