hmmmm,im just a small time newbie ,but i find betfair service crap to be honest,but there are already forums here on it being down etc,etc ,
its interesting to see on the betfair site on the blogs there making the big traders out to be bad boys and really seem to want rid of them.with comments like
At the present level, Betfair, who believe only around 500 of their 3.8 million registered users will be affected by the new charges, claim to break even on the highly profitable users, but state that profits from elsewhere are ploughed into improving the site to meet levels of trading from big punters and advertising to attract new customers to maintain liquidity in the markets.
A spokesman said: “Betfair believes that the implementation of the adjusted charge will provide the business with fair compensation for the service it provides to those impacted customers, who currently pay a rate of commissions and charges that does not reflect the benefit they gain from the Betfair ecosystem.
“We have evolved our pricing model to ensure we have a fair pricing structure for all of our customers, over 99.9 per cent of whom are not affected by this adjustment.
“Since inception we have provided customers with a unique and innovative product that has consistently offered them, on average, the best value on the market. This is still very much the case and we’re committed to ensuring that it remains the case for years to come.”
Betfair Premium Charge
-
andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
A few points are missing from this thread.
Firstly why do we have 2 threads - it is doing my head in having to check both
Secondly don't assume liquidity will drop, have we seen anywhere that Betfair have stated that they will not move in to replace these people, mainly traders. They have constantly said they do not actively trade their markets bar the multiples but have always made sure as to never rule out such a move - there is a about to be a very profitable path being opened up over the next few years as such players depart for pastures new and Betfair are in a great position to capitalise on this if they so wished as they haven't priced themselves out of the market just others. Who is for another bite of the cake?
Thirdly, people suggest using other peoples details, Betfair try to track this but also there are tax and legal issues with such a thing. Okay if you aren't caught but as I understand it if you trade with other peoples money that becomes liable for tax. Don't pay it and that isn't tax avoidance, it is tax evasion - and you don't just get a slap on the wrist for that, you might get a few slaps but not just on the wrist
Fourth, it isn't just 40% people, it is up to 60%. I would guess most of the people being caught up will be in the 60% bracket.
Fifth, there is good reason for not seeing many Betfair ads recently, most have been banned by the ASA
Firstly why do we have 2 threads - it is doing my head in having to check both
Secondly don't assume liquidity will drop, have we seen anywhere that Betfair have stated that they will not move in to replace these people, mainly traders. They have constantly said they do not actively trade their markets bar the multiples but have always made sure as to never rule out such a move - there is a about to be a very profitable path being opened up over the next few years as such players depart for pastures new and Betfair are in a great position to capitalise on this if they so wished as they haven't priced themselves out of the market just others. Who is for another bite of the cake?
Thirdly, people suggest using other peoples details, Betfair try to track this but also there are tax and legal issues with such a thing. Okay if you aren't caught but as I understand it if you trade with other peoples money that becomes liable for tax. Don't pay it and that isn't tax avoidance, it is tax evasion - and you don't just get a slap on the wrist for that, you might get a few slaps but not just on the wrist
Fourth, it isn't just 40% people, it is up to 60%. I would guess most of the people being caught up will be in the 60% bracket.
Fifth, there is good reason for not seeing many Betfair ads recently, most have been banned by the ASA
Maybe we should gather here? 
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Betfair-P ... 2673473703
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Betfair-P ... 2673473703I can only dream of getting to the 250k threshold, but it might have happened someday. Sorry to hear that Betfair trading may have come to an abrupt and unexpected end for some of you guys. I don't see how it would be possible for affected folks to continue if they're taking 60% off you.
The only thing affected folks could try would be to attempt to negotiate with Betfair to get the charge down to an acceptable level. The fact they give a range (40-60) shows there might be some room for negotiation... I'd try to push for 35%.
The only thing affected folks could try would be to attempt to negotiate with Betfair to get the charge down to an acceptable level. The fact they give a range (40-60) shows there might be some room for negotiation... I'd try to push for 35%.
Look on the bright side
For those not in the £250k bracket yet, there should be lots of opportunities to hoover up massive profits with the big hitters gone.
Just save all your winnings, and once you hit the £250k threshold, take your money and invest it elsewhere
For those not in the £250k bracket yet, there should be lots of opportunities to hoover up massive profits with the big hitters gone.
Just save all your winnings, and once you hit the £250k threshold, take your money and invest it elsewhere
Is the charge still worked out the same?
Lets say for example your overall charges is a 25%, so you have never incurred the charge up until now.
But from July, due to your past profitability you are now on 40%.
If you make £1000 for the week, and your total charges are £150, 15 %.
Do you get hit for the full £400, or are the charges for the week taken into account and you get hit for £250?
Is the maximum premium charge still the difference between 40/50/60% of your profit and your charges paid. Or are they now just taking 40/50/60% regardless of what you have paid?
Lets say for example your overall charges is a 25%, so you have never incurred the charge up until now.
But from July, due to your past profitability you are now on 40%.
If you make £1000 for the week, and your total charges are £150, 15 %.
Do you get hit for the full £400, or are the charges for the week taken into account and you get hit for £250?
Is the maximum premium charge still the difference between 40/50/60% of your profit and your charges paid. Or are they now just taking 40/50/60% regardless of what you have paid?
It could be like the very early days of Betfair - I hear that WOM was once far easier to interpret, as you didn't have as many people trying to trick the market!
Jeff
Jeff
LeTiss 4pm wrote:Look on the bright side
For those not in the £250k bracket yet, there should be lots of opportunities to hoover up massive profits with the big hitters gone.
-
andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
Good luck with that guys, sounds like the predictions are true, Betfair are going to move in and replace the traders.Ferru123 wrote:It could be like the very early days of Betfair - I hear that WOM was once far easier to interpret, as you didn't have as many people trying to trick the market!
Jeff
LeTiss 4pm wrote:Look on the bright side
For those not in the £250k bracket yet, there should be lots of opportunities to hoover up massive profits with the big hitters gone.
freddy wrote:"We are developing an integrated Exchange and sportsbook product that will allow us to provide more in-play markets as well as giving customers guaranteed execution in less liquid markets.
-
andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
[/quote]freddy wrote:"We are developing an integrated Exchange and sportsbook product that will allow us to provide more in-play markets as well as giving customers guaranteed execution in less liquid markets.
Where about.did you see this information by the way as I can't seem to find it.
-
spreadbetting
- Posts: 3140
- Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:06 pm
Where about.did you see this information by the way as I can't seem to find it.[/quote]andyfuller wrote:freddy wrote:"We are developing an integrated Exchange and sportsbook product that will allow us to provide more in-play markets as well as giving customers guaranteed execution in less liquid markets.
In the Preliminary results released today.
"Sports
Betfair is a sports-led business because we have a unique sports betting product. Sports betting is the largest segment of online gaming, generating some 40% of all online betting and gaming revenue. In the markets where we operate, around 20% of total sports betting is now placed online, and this will continue to grow. Being a sports-led operator has other advantages. Because sports betting customers are more loyal - and are naturally attracted back to the operator's website by exciting sporting fixtures - the marketing spend on attracting and retaining sports customers is lower than in other forms of gaming.
New product delivery is key to driving revenue growth. The Betting Exchange is our lead Sports product and will remain so. But we will enhance our customer experience in two important ways. First, the investment we have been making in our platform will enable us to launch a faster version of our website during FY12, with a completely new look and feel and greatly improved navigation. Second, we will extend the number of markets we offer to customers. We are developing an integrated Exchange and sportsbook product that will allow us to provide more in-play markets as well as giving customers guaranteed execution in less liquid markets. We believe this liquid Exchange and sportsbook combination will be unique to Betfair and will allow us to capture a greater share of wallet from existing customers as well as attracting new ones."
http://corporate.betfair.com/investor-r ... -06-29.pdf
One of the interesting quotes I noticed today was Yu's
"On average, Betfair grabs about a 72 percent share of its customers’ gambling money, said Chief Executive Officer David Yu in a conference call with reporters. "
-
enzabella2009
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:58 pm
One of my former students have emailed me to describe in detail what will happen with `l` introduction of new PCs in just a year or two. Despite my aversation to Betfair I have to admit that his theories are fascinating. This vision leads me to reason with a different perspective from those seen `from now on various forums. He is convinced that Betfair is not trying to eliminate competition, but tries to eliminate traders which have been raping the market for years, giving the possibility for more people to earn profits and having their bets matched with the additional introduction of more in play markets.
It is still possible that Betfair will participate actively in the market as `already been doing for some time but, with an increase in capital to ensure more stable markets to their users gaining a larger slice of profits.
This is just the introduction of the e-mail he sent me but, it took me too long to translate and I may have missed some points. When I finish i will post figures and more details he mentioned in his e-mail.
I still have some doubts about betfair integraty about everything they introduce but, lets be positive..
It is still possible that Betfair will participate actively in the market as `already been doing for some time but, with an increase in capital to ensure more stable markets to their users gaining a larger slice of profits.
This is just the introduction of the e-mail he sent me but, it took me too long to translate and I may have missed some points. When I finish i will post figures and more details he mentioned in his e-mail.
I still have some doubts about betfair integraty about everything they introduce but, lets be positive..