Min Fill Size

News, chat and debate about the Betfair betting exchange.
Golfer
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:45 pm

Megarain - do you have any footage of the 100k sweeps?
User avatar
megarain
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 1:26 pm
Contact:

The T20 World cup feeds are v slow.

PTV (a Free-to-air- channel on 38E) seems to have the fastest feed, maybe 5-6 secs behind live - so Its impossible for me to
sync pictures to the market.

If it happens on other events I have faster pics on, I will record.

Maybe the in-play traders are paranoid - but too many have been affected in Dubai - so tend to believe them.


These traders raised issues with Betfair CS, but got no-where, and they are reluctant to force the issue on social media, fearing
they will be labelled court siders etc (Am not sure I see the problem, but whatever).
User avatar
megarain
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 1:26 pm
Contact:

The slack channel seems to indicate Betfair police abuse.

Great - maybe they do a huge amount we are not privy to, but by random chance, I would have expected to have been caught up
in traders abusing the market.

In 20 yrs, I have never had a payment from Betfair (after they closed a rouge account)

Has anyone else ?

Do they presumably just keep the money?
Golfer
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:45 pm

I pulled up the end of the cricket and it looked like one stake was consistently ahead of the next quickest but it wasn't FOK so not exploiting the min fill size?
User avatar
Westerner
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:03 am

megarain wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:48 pm
Am fairly sure this is being used on the T20 World cup to sweep 100k orders at market price.

It could be used on soccer etc, before free kicks etc.

How could this have been allowed?
I have been witnessing this in the cricket markets pretty much since API NG came in, but as I'm not an automation guy I've found it very hard to explain my point to Betfair apart from screen recordings.

The response I've been getting back is the others guys are just quicker but this makes me realise I haven't been going crazy.
User avatar
megarain
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 1:26 pm
Contact:

Thinking back, it's v likely I know who this guy is.

He's using a PlayStation-type device at the ground.

Am waiting to hear from Betfair if it's a legitimate trading strategy. If so, I will pop a request for the Min Fill Size to be added as a
parameter to custom cols in the suggestion section.

:roll: :roll:
mcfc1981
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:54 pm

Something is definitely going on.

From what I am seeing someone gets to the market on 4s/6s at least a second before others

Seems to be some sort of fill or kill as the order tends take the price in and around the current price then kills, second or so later everyone elses orders hit the market

Market is alot slower to react to dot balls and wickets so the player who is beating the delay is likely concentrating on 4/6s
User avatar
PDC
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:52 pm

Just a thought but couldn't someone with the coding knowledge needed test this out on some market with small stakes to see if it would actually work as expected and then report back, perhaps even recording it and uploading it?

Or is the coding a lot of work and not worth the effort?
User avatar
Euler
Posts: 24816
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

In the early days of Horse racing in-running markets, an SIS engineer was alleged to have made a fortune from the transmitting van and unique camera angles.

There has been direct evidence of hawkeye being used to snipe Tennis, so not impossible somebody is using that telemetry data on Cricket also. As the bat hits the ball, the sniper will already know if its potentially a good shot or not. Would work a fortune in these types of markets.

Ultimately Betfair must know who this people are as their accounts must stick out like a sore thumb.
User avatar
megarain
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 1:26 pm
Contact:

Euler wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:08 pm
In the early days of Horse racing in-running markets, an SIS engineer was alleged to have made a fortune from the transmitting van and unique camera angles.

There has been direct evidence of hawkeye being used to snipe Tennis, so not impossible somebody is using that telemetry data on Cricket also. As the bat hits the ball, the sniper will already know if its potentially a good shot or not. Would work a fortune in these types of markets.

Ultimately Betfair must know who this people are as their accounts must stick out like a sore thumb.
Ground snipers, with many years' experience seed the market.

When they see their bets being taken, you know something is off.

I have been corresponding with someone in the API team - but Betfair seems reluctant to ever discuss, virtually anything in public.

I specifically asked the question in the last Q & A, as to whether any account had preferential treatment.

I will ask it again and get them to explain whether this is a legitimate tactic.
weemac
Posts: 1240
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:16 pm

I wonder how many fortunes were made during the 'funds unavailable/available during bet delay countdown' scam. Millions, surely. There's always an angle to shoot for.
User avatar
megarain
Posts: 2051
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 1:26 pm
Contact:

weemac wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:20 pm
I wonder how many fortunes were made during the 'funds unavailable/available during bet delay countdown' scam. Millions, surely. There's always an angle to shoot for.
Yeah - never heard of anyone getting an ex-gratia payment by Betfair.

So, they either gave the money to charity or presumably kept it (if the perpetrators didn't get away with it all)

It's not hard to feel Betfair dodged a few bullets from regulators.
weemac
Posts: 1240
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:16 pm

The perps would have kept the lot, because all they did was exploit a weakness in the way BF worked. That's probably why BF don't talk about these things; just gives people ideas and clues as to where to look for vulnerabilities. In fact, I once saw BF state publicly that's why they don't talk about the reasons for outages - they don't want the baddies to know where to look.
User avatar
PDC
Posts: 2272
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:52 pm

weemac wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:20 pm
I wonder how many fortunes were made during the 'funds unavailable/available during bet delay countdown' scam. Millions, surely. There's always an angle to shoot for.
I don't suppose you could give a brief overview of what happen please as I have never heard about this and would find it interesting to hear about.

(sorry for taking the thread of topic)
weemac
Posts: 1240
Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:16 pm

PDC wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:38 pm
weemac wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:20 pm
I wonder how many fortunes were made during the 'funds unavailable/available during bet delay countdown' scam. Millions, surely. There's always an angle to shoot for.
I don't suppose you could give a brief overview of what happen please as I have never heard about this and would find it interesting to hear about.

(sorry for taking the thread of topic)
Tie up all your funds in a bet that can't get matched. 5 seconds before the golf ball will reach the hole, place a back bet on that player. If the ball misses, do nothing - no bet matched because your funds are tied up elsewhere. If it drops in the hole, instantly cancel your other bet, so your golf bet gets placed, effectively without delay.
Post Reply

Return to “Betfair exchange”