Is pre race dead???

[xtrader16]

I recorded a video of me trading the last last but It doesn't let me upload it. Anybody know how these could be uploaded and in what format it would have to be in. Maybe a link to a You Tube site ?

[Euler]

Did you trade Listowel?

This is a good example of where you would have failed. Priced crashed in, so I just traded it on the reversal.

2022-06-05 at 16.10.04 copy.png

[goat68]

No. I am saying that is my understanding of how I should be trading but it doesn't work for me and I cant see any other way forward.

been there... "can't see any other way"... there always is. You don't know everything, I don't know everything, i'd even go so far as to say "PW" doesn't know everything!

I went through a phase of pure technical stuff, VWAP's SMAs all sorts of volumes ..., and got really frustrated why nothing ever worked. Then I realised when I asked myself, so why would a VWAP crossover per say work on every market? of course it won't, it's actually as good as (in fact probably worse) than entering at random. If you've watched many of Peter's videos, he mentions in talking sometimes that what you see on the video (the ladder) is just part of his trading tools, he uses Advanced charting to one side, that will no doubt include all sorts of MACD's, Volumes etc...but he uses them as just one input to feed his experienced market manual trading brain and will act or not accordingly.

The 2min thing is interesting, hadn't quite thought of it as hedging, but that actually makes good sense, basically some big players/syndicates who have BIG positions need to "hedge" so they off load their positions, they just want to close off the selections so they trade at that particular time with large volume on the selections they are on. Since they are effectively trading out at a random point in time (2mins), the long term net of all those 2min bets is roughly 0EV, so the long term "value" they gain is purely from their initial Syndicate bets. Difficult to leverage this, as 1) you have no idea what selections they are on, 2) nor the stake size they have on them.

My hint, would be if you know where "value" is NOT, where do you think "value" IS ?

[goat68]

Did you trade Listowel?

This is a good example of where you would have failed. Priced crashed in, so I just traded it on the reversal.

2022-06-05 at 16.10.04 copy.png

Nice.

But a great demonstration of different trading worlds, you make £319 on one selection, which is the same as i've made in 7 days on 1,322 markets

[xtrader16]

Wow, that is how it is done. I gave up on Irish racing years ago. My questions would be:

How did you know it would reverse and how did you know the bottom was the bottom.

My issues are primarily I don't react, I'd say quick enough but to be honest at all, when a position goes against me because I am still hoping I am right and the market is wrong. I Know. I also have little respect for my bank. I would benefit hugely if BA had the ability to deactivate In Running on Horses. I know this isn't BA's fault but some people would welcome this type of facility. I'd love to be able to deactivate In Running on the software and for it to be long winded to reverse (talking 3-4 minutes).

Congratulations on the trade. It must be easy when you know how. All these years and still going backwards. Anyway I tried and it didn't work out. Thanks for everything. I will be back in 3 months when I get myself sorted. I won't give up entirely but it is too affecting my day to day. See Ya.

[wearthefoxhat]

Did you trade Listowel?

This is a good example of where you would have failed. Priced crashed in, so I just traded it on the reversal.

2022-06-05 at 16.10.04 copy.png

Nice.

But a great demonstration of different trading worlds, you make £319 on one selection, which is the same as i've made in 7 days on 1,322 markets

I think PW would green out across all selections just before the off. (more evidence of late activity just before the off)

[Euler]

been there... "can't see any other way"... there always is. You don't know everything, I don't know everything, i'd even go so far as to say "PW" doesn't know everything!

The only people who know everything is Betfair themselves.

[xtrader16]

Longer term what are the chances of having the option to deactivate the In Running side of the software people who choose to do it.

[goat68]

Longer term what are the chances of having the option to deactivate the In Running side of the software people who choose to do it.

What do you mean by that?
Do you want to stop yourself letting a un-hedged bet go in-play ?

[xtrader16]

Longer term what are the chances of having the option to deactivate the In Running side of the software people who choose to do it.

What do you mean by that?
Do you want to stop yourself letting a un-hedged bet go in-play ?

Yes, I'd close all positions before the 00:00:00 when the deactivation is activated. If I didn't, I'd know in advance the position would play out in full. It is easy for people who don't go in play to say just don't do it but for people like me with poor discipline it is another problem to overcome. So, I'd close the position red/green or potentially lose the whole stake. Given the ability of the software and the developers it should be there as an option and people can make up their own minds. It would be very well appreciated.

Just grey it out at 00:00:00.

[Trader Pat]

I also have little respect for my bank.

This is your biggest problem.

The most important thing is to protect your bank. I honestly don't know how you can do that if you have no respect for your own money.

[xtrader16]

I also have little respect for my bank.

This is your biggest problem.

The most important thing is to protect your bank. I honestly don't know how you can do that if you have no respect for your own money.

Frustration gets the better of me and I just think so what. I'm not exactly skint but that's not the point. I only ever wanted to make around £70 -£100 a day so I could go and live in Asia for 12 weeks without losing any income. It's cost me £10's of thousands over the years. My mindset isn't going to change, I've tried and it is in my nature. I could have just saved the money and paid myself £70 a day from the savings and it would have been cheaper. Deactivating the IR part of the software would be to my advantage though. I know it is never going to happen but it would benefit a lot of people.

[to75ne]

[/quote]

Frustration gets the better of me and I just think so what. I'm not exactly skint but that's not the point. I only ever wanted to make around £70 -£100 a day so I could go and live in Asia for 12 weeks without losing any income. It's cost me £10's of thousands over the years. My mindset isn't going to change, I've tried and it is in my nature. I could have just saved the money and paid myself £70 a day from the savings and it would have been cheaper.
[/quote]

then you need stop - if you cant control yourself then you are not cut out for pre off trading (horses).

you could write a simple automation rule either in excel or guardian to green / red up at x amount of time before the official off but I suspect your emotions would get the better off you. Best knock it on the head your simply not cut out for it.

[Trader Pat]

I also have little respect for my bank.

This is your biggest problem.

The most important thing is to protect your bank. I honestly don't know how you can do that if you have no respect for your own money.

Frustration gets the better of me and I just think so what. I'm not exactly skint but that's not the point. I only ever wanted to make around £70 -£100 a day so I could go and live in Asia for 12 weeks without losing any income. It's cost me £10's of thousands over the years. My mindset isn't going to change, I've tried and it is in my nature. I could have just saved the money and paid myself £70 a day from the savings and it would have been cheaper. Deactivating the IR part of the software would be to my advantage though. I know it is never going to happen but it would benefit a lot of people.

Its a very common mistake for people to set a target when they really need to be focusing on the process. Your process is way too complicated and the screenshot you posted has way too many indicators and not enough ladder.

My advice to you would be just to stop. You've just said that you can't change your mindset so you're just going to throw away more money. Having an option on the software to stop you going in play wouldn't help either. If you're going in play because you can't accept a red screen then you'd just cram more orders in before the race started knowing it's your last chance to try to prevent the loss.

[xtrader16]

Thanks Pat, it is good advice. I am going to stop for a while. In practice my strategy works 6+ ticks and I get the moves. Go live and it fks up.

If you watch the 2 second and 10 second charts the 10 second gives you a longer term view of the market against a 2 second, short term and potential reversal. At times the 10 second is a stronger indicator and once the 2 second is going in the same direction the move is confirmed. If the 10 reverses the move is stronger that if the 2 goes alone. So there isn't too many indicators on there. Only 2.

I think most people only trade 4 ladders as it covers 75% of the volume but I'm happy to re-assess. Also happy to share any other info if you need it. Just because I'm not consistently profitable it doesn't mean I don't know ANYTHING.