Take profit condition on Daily P & L

[ajanthony]

Hi all,
Would it be possible to have a condition that automatically ceases activity once a predetermined daily profit or loss is reached. It could be a percentage of account or a dollar amount.
I like to aim for a percentage profit per day and find I quite often meet it but then find it reverses to a lower profit or possibly a loss. If I am sitting at the screen I can shut down manually but if I am running on auto and not at the computer I cannot always shut down.
Any interest?
Regards,
Anthony

[Derek27]

Hi all,
Would it be possible to have a condition that automatically ceases activity once a predetermined daily profit or loss is reached. It could be a percentage of account or a dollar amount.
I like to aim for a percentage profit per day and find I quite often meet it but then find it reverses to a lower profit or possibly a loss. If I am sitting at the screen I can shut down manually but if I am running on auto and not at the computer I cannot always shut down.
Any interest?
Regards,
Anthony

It's a question that's been raised on here many times. The simple answer is, there is no logical reason to stop trading when you're up.

There will be days when you win and lose money later, there will be as many days when you lose but win later. What difference does it make what order it happens in, and why stop for a day? Midnight is just a moment in time, like 3pm. If you have a profitable strategy you're better off applying it throughout the day. If it's unprofitable it will lose. Stopping when you've won a few quid won't help, because you're just stopping a losing strategy for a few hours but carrying on with it the next day!

[ajanthony]

Hi,
It doesn't need to be a cease at a particular time of day, it is a P & L amount regardless of time. For example you could set profit of 10% and a loss of 5% giving a risk reward ratio of 2:1 which means you only need to win 33% of the time to break even. It is a widely used strategy in share and currency trading that works effectively. The whole concept is about incorporating money or risk management as part of the overall strategy.
It is really no different to applying a stop loss or take profit in your green up conditions but far more reliable. I have found that those conditions are highly inaccurate because the volatility in the market rarely gets you out at the desired loss.
Regards,
Anthony

[Derek27]

Hi,
It doesn't need to be a cease at a particular time of day, it is a P & L amount regardless of time. For example you could set profit of 10% and a loss of 5% giving a risk reward ratio of 2:1 which means you only need to win 33% of the time to break even. It is a widely used strategy in share and currency trading that works effectively. The whole concept is about incorporating money or risk management as part of the overall strategy.
It is really no different to applying a stop loss or take profit in your green up conditions but far more reliable. I have found that those conditions are highly inaccurate because the volatility in the market rarely gets you out at the desired loss.
Regards,
Anthony

You said "once a predetermined daily profit or loss is reached". What I'm saying is that if you have a profitable strategy, there is no logic in stopping when you've reached a set profit. Backing horses at 3.0 means you only need to win 33% of the time to break even, but that's all you're likely to do.

Why would it be wise not to place a bet because you've reached your target for the day, but place a bet the next day?

I like to aim for a percentage profit per day and find I quite often meet it but then find it reverses to a lower profit or possibly a loss.

That could just happen the next day. You need to focus on long-term profits and not worry too much about day-to-day profits.

[gazuty]

If you have an edge why would you stop? If every bet is e(x) positive you want maximise the number of bets you make and you literally never want to stop.

If you stop at a particular point how do you know when to restart?

If you reach a particular profit how do you know the next event will be a loss? If you did know why wouldn’t you just reverse strategy at that point.

There is a lack of logic in the “stop” at a particular point theory. It is a “cut your profits and let your losses run strategy” that guarantees the poor house in the long term.

[ajanthony]

Well, there is different logic from different thinking.
I am sure it would be a reasonably easy condition to come up with for a smart programmer so what is the issue with having the ability to do it if you want and not use it if you don't want.
It is no different to the green up stop loss at a certain loss, it is there but rarely works at the chosen price, so maybe take that out as well.
Anthony

[gazuty]

Well, there is different logic from different thinking.

Different logic.

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Let me try to explain (I am trying to help you - apologies if I am direct) - let us take this slowly.

I have a series of questions for you - we will call this the socratic method.

• Am I correct that you start your day, load up relevant markets and apply an automation to all markets?

• Is it the same automation on every market?

• Are you doing horses, dogs, football or something else?

Once you give me these answers we can continue.

[ajanthony]

Yes
No
Horses

[Dallas]

Hi all,
Would it be possible to have a condition that automatically ceases activity once a predetermined daily profit or loss is reached. It could be a percentage of account or a dollar amount.
I like to aim for a percentage profit per day and find I quite often meet it but then find it reverses to a lower profit or possibly a loss. If I am sitting at the screen I can shut down manually but if I am running on auto and not at the computer I cannot always shut down.
Any interest?
Regards,
Anthony

The option to do this id already available, using this example you just need to add a Stored Value Condition to the rule/s you want to stop to test
The Stored Value named 'Total_Profit' i less than an entered amount (entering whatever amount you want it to stop at
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=25455

But as Gazuty and Derek have said above if you have a profitable strategy then you want to limit its potential

If you are finding your profits are peaking mid afternoon then look at why that could be
ie, is the type of races its suits changing towards the end of the day, or the number of runners etc

[gazuty]

Yes
No
Horses

Great.

Why do you use different automations on different markets?

[Derek27]

I knew Dallas would spoil the thread.

Imagine you have a break-even strategy: -

Monday: Win £50, lose £50.

Tuesday: Lose £50, win £50.

Wednesday: Win £50, then another £50.

Thursday: Lose £50, then another £50.

Result over 4 days: £0, £0, £100, -£100, breaking even.

If you stop when you've won £50 (but not when you've lost): £50, £0, £50, -£100, breaking even.

Now imagine you have an edge, change your £50 wins to £60.

Result over 4 day: £10, £10, £120, -£100: £40 profit.

Stop when you've won £60: £60, £10, £60, -£100: £30 profit.

What's the point?

[ajanthony]

I use different automations on different markets as in: UK racing has a different automation to Aus racing and Aus racing country has a slightly different automation to Aus capital city racing.
From everything I have read on these forums the advise seems to be there is no such thing as a one automation fits all, so I don't quite understand what you are inferring.

[ajanthony]

Hi all,
Would it be possible to have a condition that automatically ceases activity once a predetermined daily profit or loss is reached. It could be a percentage of account or a dollar amount.
I like to aim for a percentage profit per day and find I quite often meet it but then find it reverses to a lower profit or possibly a loss. If I am sitting at the screen I can shut down manually but if I am running on auto and not at the computer I cannot always shut down.
Any interest?
Regards,
Anthony

The option to do this id already available, using this example you just need to add a Stored Value Condition to the rule/s you want to stop to test
The Stored Value named 'Total_Profit' i less than an entered amount (entering whatever amount you want it to stop at
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=25455

But as Gazuty and Derek have said above if you have a profitable strategy then you want to limit its potential

If you are finding your profits are peaking mid afternoon then look at why that could be
ie, is the type of races its suits changing towards the end of the day, or the number of runners etc

Thanks Dallas,
I didn't know this was possible, I will look at it. Again, this is an idea based on share and currency trading, which I have done for 20 years, and uses Risk/Reward and predetermined profits or losses as a legitimate money management strategy. The profit target must be greater than the loss. All I can say is it works in those markets.
Anthony

[ShaunWhite]

I didn't know this was possible, I will look at it. Again, this is an idea based on share and currency trading, which I have done for 20 years, and uses Risk/Reward and predetermined profits or losses as a legitimate money management strategy. The profit target must be greater than the loss. All I can say is it works in those markets.
Anthony

There isn't much similarity between sports trading and financials. Futures markets are similar but not stocks or currency. Obviously do what you want but that's nothing I recognise from financial markets. Which firms have you worked for?

Between them Dallas, Derek and Gazuty have probably got 50yrs experience in this field (plus my 15), it's well worth listening to what they say. You've got 3 of the sharpest operators all saying pretty much the same thing.

[ajanthony]

I didn't know this was possible, I will look at it. Again, this is an idea based on share and currency trading, which I have done for 20 years, and uses Risk/Reward and predetermined profits or losses as a legitimate money management strategy. The profit target must be greater than the loss. All I can say is it works in those markets.
Anthony

There isn't much similarity between sports trading and financials. Futures markets are similar but not stocks or currency. Obviously do what you want but that's nothing I recognise from financial markets. Which firms have you worked for?

Between them Dallas, Derek and Gazuty have probably got 50yrs experience in this field (plus my 15), it's well worth listening to what they say. You've got 3 of the sharpest operators all saying pretty much the same thing.

I didn't work in those industries, I am a private trader. I also do listen to what other people say but I also believe in thinking outside the square, challenging norms and always looking for ways to improve processes. I know that in my currency and share trading things constantly change, methods evolve and if you don't with them you get left behind.
Anyway, bed for me as I am into hospital for a non serious procedure on my back.
Good night.