Israel/Palestine conflict

[Derek27]

The mother of an Israeli hostage who was accidentally killed by Israeli soldiers has sent them a message saying she doesn't blame them!

[firlandsfarm]

If you agree Hamas should be neutralised.
How do you do that? Innocents will die. As did many innocents when Hamas attacked Israel.
Chucking numbers around about 1300 vs 23000 misses the point completely.
I don't see what other option Israel has.
The time for cuddly friendship has been obliterated by Hamas.

But comments like that completely disregard the appalling way Israel has treated the Palestinians over the years.

[greenmark]

If you agree Hamas should be neutralised.
How do you do that? Innocents will die. As did many innocents when Hamas attacked Israel.
Chucking numbers around about 1300 vs 23000 misses the point completely.
I don't see what other option Israel has.
The time for cuddly friendship has been obliterated by Hamas.

But comments like that completely disregard the appalling way Israel has treated the Palestinians over the years.

I (with the greatest of respect) disagree. How resilient, strong do you have to be to withstand hatred for 75 years and after suffering persecution with grace for 1000's of years.
When I became aware of this jihadist element of islam I thought the hostile reaction was inaccurate. But after 25 years I've concuded that jihadist islamists are the devil. Not that I believe in God or the devil, but it's a useful shorthand. God = good - devil = any flavour of reprehensible behaviour.

[firlandsfarm]

If you agree Hamas should be neutralised.
How do you do that? Innocents will die. As did many innocents when Hamas attacked Israel.
Chucking numbers around about 1300 vs 23000 misses the point completely.
I don't see what other option Israel has.
The time for cuddly friendship has been obliterated by Hamas.

But comments like that completely disregard the appalling way Israel has treated the Palestinians over the years.

I (with the greatest of respect) disagree. How resilient, strong do you have to be to withstand hatred for 75 years and after suffering persecution with grace for 1000's of years.
When I became aware of this jihadist element of islam I thought the hostile reaction was inaccurate. But after 25 years I've concuded that jihadist islamists are the devil. Not that I believe in God or the devil, but it's a useful shorthand. God = good - devil = any flavour of reprehensible behaviour.

I was married to a Jewish lady some 50 years ago and learnt of the fight to survive then ... 6 Day, Yom Kippur etc. and then saw the film re the formation of the state of Israel and was a true supporter. But over the last 10-20 years I have come to switch my sympathies. Israel treats Gaza as a self functioning prison camp where they dictate what goes in and what comes out. The Gazans look over the border and see their persecutors living a good life on land that was theirs 75 years ago. They hear how settlements on other 'ex-Palestinian' land are built encamping the Israelis on what was their land ... they see Israel as their enemy that has forced them off their land and locked them up. In no way is that an excuse for what Hamas did but the reason was created in the previous 75 years.

[greenmark]

But comments like that completely disregard the appalling way Israel has treated the Palestinians over the years.

I (with the greatest of respect) disagree. How resilient, strong do you have to be to withstand hatred for 75 years and after suffering persecution with grace for 1000's of years.
When I became aware of this jihadist element of islam I thought the hostile reaction was inaccurate. But after 25 years I've concuded that jihadist islamists are the devil. Not that I believe in God or the devil, but it's a useful shorthand. God = good - devil = any flavour of reprehensible behaviour.

I was married to a Jewish lady some 50 years ago and learnt of the fight to survive then ... 6 Day, Yom Kippur etc. and then saw the film re the formation of the state of Israel and was a true supporter. But over the last 10-20 years I have come to switch my sympathies. Israel treats Gaza as a self functioning prison camp where they dictate what goes in and what comes out. The Gazans look over the border and see their persecutors living a good life on land that was theirs 75 years ago. They hear how settlements on other 'ex-Palestinian' land are built encamping the Israelis on what was their land ... they see Israel as their enemy that has forced them off their land and locked them up. In no way is that an excuse for what Hamas did but the reason was created in the previous 75 years.

75 years and way, way beyond.
My idealist side says how different things would look in Gaza if all the energy, thinking, innovation of both Israel and Hamas had been devoted to working together rather than slaughtering each other.
We are a stubbornly stupid species at times.
How we managed to land on the moon sometimes seems a mystery.

[Kai]

My idealist side says how different things would look in Gaza if all the energy, thinking, innovation of both Israel and Hamas had been devoted to working together rather than slaughtering each other.
We are a stubbornly stupid species at times.
How we managed to land on the moon sometimes seems a mystery.

If you think about religion as programming then you could simply say these peoples are not programmed to co-operate at all.

If anything, they were instructed to battle one another and it is near impossible to get around that fact. I've heard about ridiculous lines in the Kuran that sound like "look, there is a Jew hiding behind a rock and a tree, you must kill it".

I mean, how else do you interpret command lines like that, that's just shoddy programming overall.

[greenmark]

My idealist side says how different things would look in Gaza if all the energy, thinking, innovation of both Israel and Hamas had been devoted to working together rather than slaughtering each other.
We are a stubbornly stupid species at times.
How we managed to land on the moon sometimes seems a mystery.

If you think about religion as programming then you could simply say these peoples are not programmed to co-operate at all.

If anything, they were instructed to battle one another and it is near impossible to get around that fact. I've heard about ridiculous lines in the Kuran that sound like "look, there is a Jew hiding behind a rock and a tree, you must kill it".

I mean, how else do you interpret command lines like that, that's just shoddy programming overall.

I did read part of the Quran and got fed up with being told what I can and can't do. Perhaps it does have a more narrative section but I honestly got the same feeling from reading part of Mein Kampf. I became weary being dictated to and genuinely felt like my miind was being polluted.

[Crazyskier]

So, you flipping lot are supporting Israel in murdering children .

This forum has become a joke.

Happy to pass the contents of certain threads over to the authorities and those making gambling laws as I am sure they will put certain things together and come up with 10.

What a flipping shit show you all are.

I don't think we need insults, they're not helpful.

What suggestion do you have then, Archery given that Israel was living relatively peacefully side by side with the Palestinians until Hamas raped, tortured and killed all those innocent lives?

How do YOU suggest that Israel defend themselves when their terrorist enemy surrounds itself with innocents?

CS

[firlandsfarm]

75 years and way, way beyond.
My idealist side says how different things would look in Gaza if all the energy, thinking, innovation of both Israel and Hamas had been devoted to working together rather than slaughtering each other.
We are a stubbornly stupid species at times.
How we managed to land on the moon sometimes seems a mystery.

The problem is the that each side will not see the position of the other side and each side blames the other side for the the current position. There will never be a peaceful settlement while neither can see the faults in themselves.

[greenmark]

75 years and way, way beyond.
My idealist side says how different things would look in Gaza if all the energy, thinking, innovation of both Israel and Hamas had been devoted to working together rather than slaughtering each other.
We are a stubbornly stupid species at times.
How we managed to land on the moon sometimes seems a mystery.

The problem is the that each side will not see the position of the other side and each side blames the other side for the the current position. There will never be a peaceful settlement while neither can see the faults in themselves.

It's easy. Let's stop doing terrible things to each other and behave like grown-ups.
We've done the slaughter thing, all the evidence shows that's a pile of crap. The alternative is so, so simple and so much more productive. Anyhow. I'll shut up!:-)

[Archangel]

Can only assume now that when Israel states that they want to destroy Hamas, they actually mean destroy Palestine as a nation completely.
Mass genocide

[firlandsfarm]

Can only assume now that when Israel states that they want to destroy Hamas, they actually mean destroy Palestine as a nation completely.
Mass genocide

That's how it seems.

[greenmark]

Can only assume now that when Israel states that they want to destroy Hamas, they actually mean destroy Palestine as a nation completely.
Mass genocide

That's how it seems.

I remember when Yasser Arafat was the media's devil incarnate. Now he seems very sensible. He tried to make the 2-state thing work but Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Houtis, Al Queda, IS et al have different objectives and red lines. Be certain all those protagonists would happily take over the world. They are Nazi's and what Israel is doing is utterly logical. It's brutal but Hamas showed their intention and Israel had 2 choices. Leave (again) or refuse to leave.

[Derek27]

John Bolten says the US navy should send the Iranian warships in the Red Sea to the sea floor.

[Derek27]

Michael Clarke says both our aircraft carriers are sitting in Portsmouth unable to be deployed. They don't have enough crewed support ships.

And we're supposed to be ready for war against Russia!