Python, should I invest the time?

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PapaShango
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:41 pm

I was in the same boat too. I knew I wanted data, but didn’t know what data I wanted or what I would use it for.

However, after learning Python during lockdown I now have no end of data which I now know exactly what to do with.

Some data is harder to get, and isn’t, or shouldn’t be, publicly available. However there are lots of people who you can ask privately who can help get you this data.

It’s not easy , but well worth investing the time.
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gazuty
Posts: 2547
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:03 am
Location: Green land :)

I've said on other occassions (viewtopic.php?p=265873#p265873) you need an idea, a plan.

You need to say to yourself, if these conditions are satisfied and I do x, then the result I can expect is y. That is - if I take a particular action there is an expected value outcome of that action, and if that expected value outcome is positive after commissions - bingo was his namo. Try to discover things that can be repeated many times. Things that can only be repeated occassionaly can be ruinous even if expected value positive because of draw downs.

Each person has their own poison, I don't like to back test on data, I like to take ideas I think will be sucessful and forward test by using real money for real outcomes. For that purpose, I just set aside money I'm willing to lose to R&D (while expecting profit).
PeterLe
Posts: 3715
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:19 pm

I'd say do it. Learning anything new is good for growth - growth mindset
There is another thread on here on Python where I list the Udemy course i did. (Cost about £12- £15?)
I must admit though; I was actually expecting it to be easier that it was, so you have to be prepared to invest your time.
The udemy course was easy to follow, but then putting that into practice was harder as is anything when you are new.
If I were to sit down at a new PC now, I could probably have flumine installed and strategy running in 20 mins now I know what im doing.

There is a big plus. There is always someone on the slack group who will answer any questions you have. Truth be known; without their help i would never have achieved it.

I now have a few Flumine bot's up and running each day 3 accounts, (making money). Im able to record the data and use for backtesting too.
Its worth noting that I also use betangel. I have a few accounts on this too. I particularly like betangel for development purposes as its simple to test new ideas. Still a great product in my opinion and they make money every day.
To cap it off; I have my own stuff written in C# for the fast in play stuff (TPD etc) (Python is much easier to learn that C# by the way ).
So in summary, have a go, nothing to lose other that time. One thing I would say is that I feel I have a much better understanding of the API, matching rates etc than I did before.
One interesting thing; Ive found that you can have the same strategy running in betangel; Flumine and C#, same stakes, criteria etc and they all give different results each race/day

regards
Peter
(PS Its highly likely that you will never reach a level of understanding of python as some on the slack group. However, even if you were the very best at Python it doesn't guarantee that you will be successful on Belfair. For me, to be successful, you have to think different in you application of your strategy. Some may disagree but I think that if you can't make money with betangel, then its probably likely you wont using other languages.
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decomez6
Posts: 651
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:26 pm

craignmoss wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:22 pm
The harder data is to extract, the more likely I could find patterns and profit from them.
Have you truly explored all the options that excel got to offer?
Eg Power BI, AI …etc…. If what you are looking for is patterns and correlation excel got some excellent capabilities.
On the other hand I would be very careful with things like fill rates and human behaviour ,hard to predict and yet any data you collect will inherently contain this information.

In case you choose to go the python or R way , be prepared to go all the way or Not at all. Atleast to a level where you can debug your own code without falling into a situation where your own bug result to false positives , going undetected until a major loss.
You will need to have enough knowledge to build a reliable platform that you can trust to handle your scaled up bets in a live market .

I personally think it’s not worth starting something you can’t finish .I have wasted a lot of time on projects that are half finished and I think it’s a steep learning curve.
That being said , if you have the time and enthusiasm….go for it !!
Coding should in theory give you an executional edge ,allows your robust profitable trading plan develope an artificial intelligence (AI) !

all the best .
michaelg2708
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:08 pm

what extra in formation is available using python through the api that you cant get by sending data to excel?
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craignmoss
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2021 9:52 pm

Thanks all, this is really helpful. I think my biggest challenge right now is getting data into excel and Python seemed like the best way of doing this. I know some sites have ready to go CSV files (although they may not contain the data I want) and maybe I can find a webscraper to do things quicker. In any event, there's some really useful stuff in here. If anyone can provide me with a golden key to get data from websites, soccer stats, flashscore, whatever it is, I would be grateful to hear.
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Euler
Posts: 24702
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:39 pm
Location: Bet Angel HQ

Have a look at the power query section. On my phone so can't link to it immediately.

Personally I wouldn't waste too much time on data as there is tons of data out there that completely contradicts what I do. I use data to model, but not to find strategies. All my best strategies I've found through market participation.
sniffer66
Posts: 1666
Joined: Thu May 02, 2019 8:37 am

craignmoss wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:56 pm
Thanks all, this is really helpful. I think my biggest challenge right now is getting data into excel and Python seemed like the best way of doing this. I know some sites have ready to go CSV files (although they may not contain the data I want) and maybe I can find a webscraper to do things quicker. In any event, there's some really useful stuff in here. If anyone can provide me with a golden key to get data from websites, soccer stats, flashscore, whatever it is, I would be grateful to hear.
I did this in Auto-It, but could just as easily be done in Python. I am also passing directly to Guardian, rather than Excel but again easy enough to adapt

if you do a little exploring in the API you will find that historical match data is available as well as every available live stat. Plus many that arent even displayed on the web page

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22924&hilit=program

Find the right API query and you will find data for every sport they have available on the site

Might help you get started...
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gstar1975
Posts: 615
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:59 am

Euler wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:02 pm
Have a look at the power query section. On my phone so can't link to it immediately.

Personally I wouldn't waste too much time on data as there is tons of data out there that completely contradicts what I do. I use data to model, but not to find strategies. All my best strategies I've found through market participation.
Can you please explain what you mean when you say "I use data to model, but not to find strategies." ?

Surely modelling data leads/guides you to a strategy.
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