Hello
I'd welcome any advice from experienced horse racing traders, please!
If you were starting from scratch in 2016, with no experience of the markets, what steps would you take to become successful.
For example:
How important is it to understand horse racing form and what books / resources would you recommend to learn about form?
Is simply watching markets for a period of time beneficial?
Is it better to specialise on one type of trading or should you be multi-disciplined i.e. some swing trading, in-running, scalping, laying etc?
The good news, is that I've read Mark Douglas' Trading In THe Zone, so am coming to this with the right mindset.
I've got £500 to trade with along with a further £500 should that bank be lost. Going forward, I have provisions to add £500 per month to the bank so that within 12 months, I have 2 banks with at least £3000 in them.
Based on my limited reading, I'd be looking to make around £2000 per month after 12 months of trading. I think this is realistic.
From a practical point of view, is it necessary to have software like Proform or live pictures when starting out or, could you use any profits to pay for this.
Many thanks
Iambic Pentameter
New to Horse Racing Trading - advice sought
You could probably ask 10 traders the same questions and get 10 different answers, in the end it all comes down to what suits you best, and what works for you.
In answer to your questions though, I would say....
Understanding form can be both a help and a hindrance. There are traders who use form to base their trades on, and traders who just purely trade the numbers and what is in front of them without any knowledge of form or horses.
The advantages of knowing form is that it can help you to spot a horse who you think is either over or under priced, and give you an idea of the direction it's price may be heading. The disadvantage is that if you have a strong opinion, it can be hard to let go. If you feel strongly that a horse should be shortening, but it starts drifting, you may find it harder to cut your losses, and end up getting into a bad position, and the temptation to go in running is greater as it is hard to take a loss on a horse that you think will win. Where as if you are just trading the numbers, you have little attachment to the trade and it is easier to just take a loss and move on.
Just watching the markets is beneficial up to a point. It can give you an idea of the kind of moves you can expect, how far a horse may shorten or drift,when the markets start moving and the seemingly random manner in which prices jump about. But nothing will teach you more about the markets than actually putting real money into them. Practise mode can help you get comfortable with the software, though you can only learn about both the markets and yourself, and how you will react to certain situations, by putting real money through.
I would say there is no one size fits all approach to the markets. Different races require different strategies, so it would definitely better to learn all the different aspects and disciplines of trading.
I've never really understood the appeal of proform if I'm honest, though plenty seem to use it and if you find it helps then go for it. I certainly wouldn't call it essential though, where as live pictures I would say are. You would be at a massive disadvantage trying to trade without live pictures.
In answer to your questions though, I would say....
Understanding form can be both a help and a hindrance. There are traders who use form to base their trades on, and traders who just purely trade the numbers and what is in front of them without any knowledge of form or horses.
The advantages of knowing form is that it can help you to spot a horse who you think is either over or under priced, and give you an idea of the direction it's price may be heading. The disadvantage is that if you have a strong opinion, it can be hard to let go. If you feel strongly that a horse should be shortening, but it starts drifting, you may find it harder to cut your losses, and end up getting into a bad position, and the temptation to go in running is greater as it is hard to take a loss on a horse that you think will win. Where as if you are just trading the numbers, you have little attachment to the trade and it is easier to just take a loss and move on.
Just watching the markets is beneficial up to a point. It can give you an idea of the kind of moves you can expect, how far a horse may shorten or drift,when the markets start moving and the seemingly random manner in which prices jump about. But nothing will teach you more about the markets than actually putting real money into them. Practise mode can help you get comfortable with the software, though you can only learn about both the markets and yourself, and how you will react to certain situations, by putting real money through.
I would say there is no one size fits all approach to the markets. Different races require different strategies, so it would definitely better to learn all the different aspects and disciplines of trading.
I've never really understood the appeal of proform if I'm honest, though plenty seem to use it and if you find it helps then go for it. I certainly wouldn't call it essential though, where as live pictures I would say are. You would be at a massive disadvantage trying to trade without live pictures.
-
iambic_pentameter
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 1:24 pm
Thanks for the detailed reply - really appreciated.
Will offer up some thoughts here. Probably not that much further than you down this journey, started with a £150 bank only a few months ago and currently have about £1.5k. I too have a goal of trading full time, so good luck to you sir!
One thing that you must do is see that your strategy is mathematically sound! For example no point in scalping out for a 5% profit if you lose your whole stake once every 15 times, you need min 20 wins/losses to make that viable. No point in taking 100% profit (DOB) if you can't handle the emotional pressure of losing your whole stake 3 or 4 times out of every 10 etc etc. You have to consider three variables; risk, reward and probability.
Overall trading is about finding a strategy that that suits you. Some people prefer very low risk, lots of small wins and losses. Others like to take bigger risks and relish bigger wins...
Finally, arguably most important of all, is emotion! Trading should be cold and clinical, boring even. If you're experiencing stress and/or excitement then you need to lower your stakes. Trade the I Don't Care position size, then slowly increase your stakes once it becomes boring.
One thing that you must do is see that your strategy is mathematically sound! For example no point in scalping out for a 5% profit if you lose your whole stake once every 15 times, you need min 20 wins/losses to make that viable. No point in taking 100% profit (DOB) if you can't handle the emotional pressure of losing your whole stake 3 or 4 times out of every 10 etc etc. You have to consider three variables; risk, reward and probability.
Overall trading is about finding a strategy that that suits you. Some people prefer very low risk, lots of small wins and losses. Others like to take bigger risks and relish bigger wins...
Finally, arguably most important of all, is emotion! Trading should be cold and clinical, boring even. If you're experiencing stress and/or excitement then you need to lower your stakes. Trade the I Don't Care position size, then slowly increase your stakes once it becomes boring.
this arguably sums up everything I feel about this bubble. agree also 100% about the trials and tribulations in finding a system that works. Have many times felt that I had the perfect cash machine after a few weeks trialing, only to find it inexplicably break down on 2-3 really bad trades. You need to obviously have losses, but they should be proportionate to your overall picture. Also, I can't count how many times I've flipped from a back strategy to a lay strategy without resounding conclusion. Have always found the lay strategy more consistent BUT can really pi$$ you off when it doesn't go to plan. Often, over specifying a strategy and narrowing down the number of times you hit the market can be far better than spraying the entire market with the same rules. Record your wins and losses and details about the markets they occurred in. Finally, if you have a strategy that works 95% of the time, really labour on discovering why the other 5% of the time it fails and either shore up this gap (if possible of course), OR reach a conclusion as to the factors in the market that are causing failure and again ignore those markets in the future with this given rule.skotten84 wrote: Finally, arguably most important of all, is emotion! Trading should be cold and clinical, boring even. If you're experiencing stress and/or excitement then you need to lower your stakes. Trade the I Don't Care position size, then slowly increase your stakes once it becomes boring.
my few cents
There is lots of fantastic advice and videos out there on the internet for any newcomer to trading. I was watching the youtube vidoes of one of the best exchange traders in the business the other night and came across a real gem.
I hope it is ok to share it on here. Unless you want to watch an advert for a smurf based cereal, fast forward to around 44 seconds in for the message, and probably the best trading advice ever given on the internet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3ONO13QF3o
"slow steady trading" Mr.T.rader.
I hope it is ok to share it on here. Unless you want to watch an advert for a smurf based cereal, fast forward to around 44 seconds in for the message, and probably the best trading advice ever given on the internet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3ONO13QF3o
"slow steady trading" Mr.T.rader.
-
iambic_pentameter
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 1:24 pm
Some really useful information on this thread, thanks for the replies.
Oscar123, what's the name of the trader who's videos you are watching - if you could provide a link or PM to them, that would be great.
Many thanks.
Oscar123, what's the name of the trader who's videos you are watching - if you could provide a link or PM to them, that would be great.
Many thanks.
If you are talking about the most successful trader 
Loads of videos here, in a nice neat package: -
http://www.betangel.tv
Or direct on the You Tube channel
https://www.youtube.com/c/betangeltv
But you get cute cats and dogs there!
Loads of videos here, in a nice neat package: -http://www.betangel.tv
Or direct on the You Tube channel
https://www.youtube.com/c/betangeltv
But you get cute cats and dogs there!
-
iambic_pentameter
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 1:24 pm
I'm humbled that you've posted on my thread!Euler wrote:If you are talking about the most successful trader
http://www.betangel.tv
Or direct on the You Tube channel
https://www.youtube.com/c/betangeltv
But you get cute cats and dogs there!
Seriously though, thank you for the links and the videos you've got there.
Do you need a trading apprentice?!
-
magwitch78
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:26 pm
Any chance of a masterclass spin off Peter? whereby the course is just you trading the days card with a bit of a commentary? 
My advice... Have a set of rules that you know if you follow makes profit and stick rigidly to it.... and that I find is the hardest thing... because even though patience is something I was blessed with... I can tell you from personal experience that there are days when nothing is meeting my conditions so I take a risk to try and generate some money... and I must be the unluckiest person in the world, but whenever I step slightly outside what I am looking for in a trade... I get punished... it's like clockwork... it rarely happens nowadays because I have been bitten so many times when I strayed... but even now I still sometimes err... and I tell ya, the hand of fate is always just waiting for that slightest sign of weakness to pounce on me.... otherwise... this trading business is a licence to print money...
-
SeaHorseRacing
- Posts: 2896
- Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 7:06 pm
I will add something...
Time. No matter the talent or determination it takes time to master this.
Time. No matter the talent or determination it takes time to master this.