Automation with trailing stop and offset.

[dee12]

Thanks again Dallas, watched video's again, I think the problem i have encountered is setting the offset (ticks) to a small value, i have been trying different settings out most of the day, with different results, its just trying to find a happy medium.

[dee12]

The software will not green out using offset bet with greening and trialing stop during inplay, I have global settings enabled, any ideas where i am going wrong.

[Dallas]

Do you have a copy of the log? if you have it enabled there is nothing really that can cause it not to place (it may ne be matched) but should always trigger.

[dee12]

Just enabled it now Dallas will post as soon as the next race i select is finished.

[dee12]

Hi Dallas, i have taken a image at the time of placing the bet and also shortly after it auto closed but never green out at that point, potentially leaving a big loss.Thanks.

[dee12]

second image and log
8/14/2016 14:05:13: Market changed to Ponte 14th Aug - 14:15 5f Mdn Stks
8/14/2016 14:06:06: £ 2.00 Back bet placed on Emerald Secret at 5.9. Entirely unmatched when it initially reached the market. Ref: 10000 ( Offsetting by 50 ticks with greening. Trailing Stop at 7 ticks. Place stop at 12 ticks. )
8/14/2016 14:06:06: £ 4.24 Lay bet placed on Emerald Secret at 2.78. Entirely unmatched when it initially reached the market. Ref: 10001
8/14/2016 14:06:13: Cancelling bets 10001
8/14/2016 14:06:13: Cancelling bets 10000
8/14/2016 14:06:26: £ 2.00 Back bet placed on Emerald Secret at 5.9. Fully matched at 5.9. Ref: 10002 ( Offsetting by 50 ticks with greening. Trailing Stop at 7 ticks. Place stop at 12 ticks. )
8/14/2016 14:06:26: £ 4.24 Lay bet placed on Emerald Secret at 2.78. Entirely unmatched when it initially reached the market. Ref: 10003
8/14/2016 14:06:28: Modify bet persistence 10003 from 'Cancel' to 'Keep'

8/14/2016 14:11:04: Stop triggered. Modify bet 10003 from 4.24 @ 2.78 to 4.24 @ 8.2 [Keep at in-play] New Ref: 10004

8/14/2016 14:11:46: Market changed to Tram 14th Aug - 14:20 2m5f Mdn Hrd

8/14/2016 14:11:51: Market changed to Ponte 14th Aug - 14:15 5f Mdn Stks
8/14/2016 14:11:58: Greened up Emerald Secret by Backing 2.93 at 6.4
8/14/2016 14:12:11: £ 2.00 Back bet placed on Emerald Secret at 6.2. Fully matched at 6.2. Ref: 10006 ( Offsetting by 50 ticks with greening. Trailing Stop at 8 ticks. Place stop at 12 ticks. )
8/14/2016 14:12:11: £ 4.40 Lay bet placed on Emerald Secret at 2.82. Entirely unmatched when it initially reached the market. Ref: 10007
8/14/2016 14:14:33: Stop triggered. Modify bet 10007 from 4.4 @ 2.82 to 4.4 @ 8.6 New Ref: 10008
8/14/2016 14:16:23: £ 2.00 Back bet placed on Emerald Secret at 6.6. Fully matched at 6.6. Ref: 10009 ( Offsetting by 50 ticks with greening. Trailing Stop at 8 ticks. Place stop at 12 ticks. )
8/14/2016 14:16:23: £ 4.62 Lay bet placed on Emerald Secret at 2.86. Entirely unmatched when it initially reached the market. Ref: 10010
8/14/2016 14:16:27: Modify bet persistence 10010 from 'Cancel' to 'Keep'

8/14/2016 14:16:37: £ 2.00 Back bet placed on Ashurst Beacon at 5.1. Entirely unmatched when it initially reached the market. Ref: 10011 ( Offsetting by 50 ticks with greening. Trailing Stop at 8 ticks. Place stop at 12 ticks. )
8/14/2016 14:16:37: £ 3.89 Lay bet placed on Ashurst Beacon at 2.62. Entirely unmatched when it initially reached the market. Ref: 10012
8/14/2016 14:16:40: Modify bet persistence 10012 from 'Cancel' to 'Keep'

8/14/2016 14:17:57: Market has been suspended
8/14/2016 14:17:57: Market is in-play
8/14/2016 14:17:58: Market has been unsuspended
8/14/2016 14:17:59: Stop triggered. Modify bet 10012 from 3.89 @ 2.62 to 3.89 @ 6 [Keep at in-play] New Ref: 10013

8/14/2016 14:18:10: Market changed to Tram 14th Aug - 14:20 2m5f Mdn Hrd
8/14/2016 14:18:44: £ 2.00 Back bet placed on Static Jack at 4.7. Entirely unmatched when it initially reached the market. Ref: 10014 ( Offsetting by 50 ticks with greening. Trailing Stop at 8 ticks. Place stop at 12 ticks. )
8/14/2016 14:18:44: £ 3.70 Lay bet placed on Static Jack at 2.54. Entirely unmatched when it initially reached the market. Ref: 10015
8/14/2016 14:18:47: Modify bet persistence 10015 from 'Cancel' to 'Keep'

8/14/2016 14:20:20: Market has been suspended
8/14/2016 14:20:20: Market is in-play
8/14/2016 14:20:20: Market has been unsuspended
8/14/2016 14:21:38: Stop triggered. Modify bet 10015 from 3.7 @ 2.54 to 3.7 @ 4 [Keep at in-play] New Ref: 10017
8/14/2016 14:22:26: Greened up Static Jack by Backing 0.91 at 5.1
8/14/2016 14:25:38: Market has been suspended

[Dallas]

The log you have attached is all for the earlier races around 2pm, just need to see the part that relates to this southwell race at 15:30pm

Also his in-play low was not short enough to match with your offset at 1.96 so it could only of triggered the stop in this race

[dee12]

Sorry Dallas never noticed, the softwar is doing everything i want it to do but green out.
8/14/2016 15:22:49: Market changed to Sthl 14th Aug - 15:30 3m Hcap Hrd
8/14/2016 15:28:45: £ 2.00 Back bet placed on Young Dillon at 2.9. Fully matched at 2.92. Ref: 10029 ( Fill or kill bet with 1 seconds delay. Offsetting by 50 ticks with greening. Trailing Stop at 8 ticks. Place stop at 12 ticks. )
8/14/2016 15:28:45: £ 2.98 Lay bet placed on Young Dillon at 1.96. Entirely unmatched when it initially reached the market. Ref: 10030
8/14/2016 15:28:49: Modify bet persistence 10030 from 'Cancel' to 'Keep'

8/14/2016 15:30:38: Market has been suspended
8/14/2016 15:30:39: Market is in-play
8/14/2016 15:30:39: Market has been unsuspended
8/14/2016 15:31:26: Stop triggered. Modify bet 10030 from 2.98 @ 1.96 to 2.98 @ 3.15 [Keep at in-play] New Ref: 10031
8/14/2016 15:36:56: Market has been suspended

[Dallas]

Your stop triggered at 15:31:26 @ 3.15 although it may not of been matched if the odds went through these odds to fast and never come back down.

Stop in-running are never guaranteed, in face most traders wont even use them as they either dont get matched or there triggered prematurely due to the volatility of the odds movement.

But you have everything set up and working as it should.

[dee12]

Ok Dallas thank you, is there anyway you can let it bounce out and hit your stop, say 1 or 2 times before arming to stop you out properly.I have noticed that the volatility of the odds movement happens more within the first 15-20 seconds of a race, then in most cases ( unless a horse hits a fence etc) it settles down.

[Tanden]

Hi dee12

The software is working exactly as designed - but not, perhaps, exactly as you expect.

When you place an "offset bet with greening and (trailing) stop" the software will calculate the "offset bet" stake size necessary to give an equal green if the offset odds are reached.

However, the software does not calculate the required stake size to give an equal green when the stop odds are reached.

Instead, it just uses the stake size already calculated for the offset bet. So, if the stop is reached it will never actually give an equal green. If you use a small offset then the result may not be too far out but if you use a very large offset, as you have, then the result will be a long way out.

Using your screenshot as an example...

The software has calculated that the offset bet should be £2.98 at odds of 1.96 (which would give an equal green of £0.98 if matched).

From your log we can see the stop was triggered at 3.15.

We can calculate manually that the correct lay stake to green up equally at 3.15 would be £1.54 (giving roughly £0.15 loss).

However, also from the log, we can see the software simply modified the odds of the original offset bet and kept the original stake size of £2.98.

Log = "8/14/2016 15:31:26: Stop triggered. Modify bet 10030 from 2.98 @ 1.96 to 2.98 @ 3.15 [Keep at in-play] New Ref: 10031"

So, in this example, the lay stake used was too large for greening purposes.

Note that this issue will occur whether the stop fires in-play or pre-race.

You may be able to achieve what you want by using an "offset bet with trailing stop" (ie without greening) and then use automation to green up separately once the offset or stop bet has been matched.

[dee12]

Thank you for taking your time to give a first class explanation why this has happened, i will give the automation a try and surely at some point find a edge to make a small profit, if i dont, its not for the lack of trying, thanks again Dalleas.

[Dallas]

Ok Dallas thank you, is there anyway you can let it bounce out and hit your stop, say 1 or 2 times before arming to stop you out properly.I have noticed that the volatility of the odds movement happens more within the first 15-20 seconds of a race, then in most cases ( unless a horse hits a fence etc) it settles down.

you cant do it with the ordinary stop loss from the global settings but i created a rule which can be downloaded from the shared files library which stops you out if a pre set monetary loss is exceeded for a number of consecutive seconds.

Although it still wont guarantee to close every time and for the loss you have said if the loss keeps rising it will keep trying and close at the best price rather than stay at the same odds unmatched.

It can be downloaded from here,
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=11954

If you have never downloaded any automation files before this video explains how to do it and apply it to a market.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Im4pj683g

[dee12]

Thanks Dallas, going to download it tonight.