Bet Angel TV - an expansion

[Ralphyboy]

Good morning everyone I'm not entirely sure this is the best place to post this thread I'm certain the Video forum would have been correct but it appears to be pretty much dead in terms of activity so i felt getting more exposure here was of more importance.

So to the point it appears Peter is releasing more and more videos which is great for us as members but I feel like we aren't getting the most from there well I'm certainly not.

Ill give an example
Peter Webb Bet Angel - Trading Crossover points on Betfair

here we have a nice video with a very specific point however its only discussed in very generic terms its great for broadening my horizons but poor on broadening my specific knowledge and specific knowledge is exactly what i want in my pursuit to becoming an accomplished trader.

First up, I was all ready aware of crossovers and I was aware of there position on the ladders ( they are specifically marked in a different colour for those that aren't aware ) and I'm aware they are areas of congestion where your trades are likely to stall more often than not permanently, other times temporally before it steams through, and to that sense i have a general idea how to use crossovers.
So the video doesn't go beyond this general knowledge, maybe there is nothing more to discuss ? Nope. Peter goes on to say he has become aware over time there are many "Key points" , "a whole range of areas" this specific statement is the real gem of the video, and should be discussed in much greater detail if we are all to get the most from the BetAngel TV and the forum - I'm not suggesting or demanding Peter has to give up this information but we as members should be dissecting among ourselves exactly what these key points are, filling in the gaps if you like that he leaves us. If Peter wanted to provided more great if not completely understood.

I'm aware you can comment under the videos but it doesn't allow for a robust conversation to take place unlike the forum, what I'm suggesting is every time a video is created we then create a thread here on the forum ( they should be sticked if they are done correctly)

find the nugget of information that's provided and there are a number of these nuggets from the limited amount I have viewed. So with a greater level of scrutiny who knows how much more we will find and increase our knowledge base. Essentially a study group / discussion of very specific points that we can then draw some very specific and accurate conclusions from.

[SeaHorseRacing]

The problem is my friend I have sat at my desk trading and studied books after books on an average of 12-16 hours a day for the last 13 months and the reason why these videos are probably limited is because they are free.

I appreciate your eagerness to learn but these topics are covered on Peters course so they will not b given away for free.

This is just my opinion, you have to make the time to find out for yourself.

I like to help but you have to help yourself. Peters videos are fantastic but you have to investgate yourself to learn.
Good luck.

[Ralphyboy]

I concur with your point Sea Horses to a certain degree , I'm acutely aware that the reasons Peter doesn't indulge is because this information is valuable, well that's my opinion I could be wrong maybe peter doesn't have the time it could be of a number of reasons.
However that doesn't mean it cant be attained with out paying to go on courses - Hence my post I believe a collection of like minded people some experience others with not so much can bring this information to light this is the age of the internet ! open source code and software worth millions are readily available for free keep an open mind my learned friend there is more than one way to skin a cat!

There is good information available all ready this forum and its not a question of will this information become freely available its just a question of time, and matter of the will of the people and I am a man of the people

P.s One last point that's exactly what this post is doing helping myself and the others and for myself and others we will have to sit and put in the time for it to be of any use just like yourself my friend .

[steven1976]

My advice would be find a shitty football game and understand why quite often there are chunks of money stacked up in 3 or 4 positions. Use them to help you for now and forget about the horses for now. Remember 1 tick on a football game is the same as the horses.

Try late on in a game maybe in an under overs that has to move a lot of ticks in the final 15 mins and get a feel for what is happening. Use small stakes and dont worry about it being a loosing trade for now. It will probably feel like if you back something the market moves against your position, or a big amount of money suddenly appears "trying" to get layed and is slowly matched down holding you in a loosing position for a little longer than you would like. I think doing this may help understand a little bit about the short term prices and help recognise patterns in horses when you see what the front of the book is doing.

In my opinion the markets are very controlled, so its not easy trying to look for that magical moment with so many flashing lights. I was at a wedding earlier this year with someone who mentioned they were a big percentage of the market and had all kinds of clever tricks going on. Whether its true or not i don't know but I have no reason to doubt him on his past record. Whether they make money though is another thing!

[Ralphyboy]

Steven thanks for that info , so we now have a basic practice strategy to spot key resistance points in the market its a start thank you mate. Also that's an interesting story regarding the big player in the market.

[Bluesky]

I do fully understand what you are saying here Ralphyboy, but I am not sure how much help it would be if Peter were to provide more information or if his videos were to be discussed in some detail on here.

I don't think pre off horse trading is as simple as if you see this then do that, if this happens then you should do that etc. If the markets really worked like that then virtually everyone who does the various trading courses available would be making a fortune and this is not the case.

I think having some kind of training either do it yourself or paid for is useful to give you a starting point but then its going to take you hundreds and probably thousands of hours of watching pre off horse racing markets to develop a feel for how they work. I don't think this feel (for want of a better word) can be taught or explained either in a video, forum post or trading course. I think it is something that each person has to learn for themselves. I like to think that everyone has the ability (I don't know if this is true), to gain that feel for themselves but it takes most people a long time.

I don't know if you have read Adam Heathcotes blog for a few years back, but he thought most people trading full time every day would probably need at least 4 to 6 months before they developed it.

Now most new traders have to work full time and so don't usually have the opportunity to trade full time for say 6 months, so can you see how long it would take most people to do it, not many would have the discipline to stick it out for say 3 or 4 years trading part time and probably losing money or breaking even before they had developed a really good feel for the markets.

If you watch a lot of PWs and others videos you will see them doing things sometimes that don't seem to make logical sense if you are trying to trade by the do this if so and so happens. Peter will sometimes say something like, I knew that was going to happen but that's because I have watched hundreds and thousands of these markets.

[Ralphyboy]

Again Bluesky I agree mate largely with what you say, that this is all part of a larger picture, the time needs to be put in and the "feel" developed but we cant get away from the point. That by having specific detailed information will allow people who put in the time to progress more than a generic information will.

[steven1976]

Steven thanks for that info , so we now have a basic practice strategy to spot key resistance points in the market its a start thank you mate. Also that's an interesting story regarding the big player in the market.

Im sure there will be more than one but if you think in terms of trading rather than gambling on the below example it might help understand a few things.

Lets say for example, the market that we see is all flashing lights from the same entity in its simplest form (crazy i know) but just for an example. Lets say the market maker has 1 million pounds. He has bets flashing backwards and forwards around 10s on the back and lay. You with a 200 pound bank enter a back bet at 10.5 and the market shoots through you, for no other reason other than it is a cross over point. The market with a million then suddenly moves against you and pushes the price out to 13s, with you in a loosing position. So what do you do? Do you hope it comes back down somewhere in the race or do you sell out for a small loss? You decide to gamble and the price eventually comes back down slowly in the final furlong and you sell out at 7s in relief that you have a green. If the horse ran bad, it never comes back down and you end up loosing 20 pound.

Same example but you lay at 9.8 for 20 pound, with your bank of 200, all of a sudden the market has moved into 9s and it looks like everyone is backing this donkey. What do you do? Gamble and hope it loses, which it does but the price only slowly moves up, or the price stays down late into the race and you sell out at a loss.

The above is obviously only hyperthetical but just something to think about. Therefore, rather than looking at a price in the short term, have a look at the direction it is going and dont jump in to early if you decide horses are the one to start out on. Choose to enter on a side you think is favourable but have a look at where it has gone over the short term.

I don't do this full time so just ramblings of a nutter but maybe something to think about whether its right or wrong.