1 June 2010.
Horse Racing -£15
7 hours trading, 47 horse racing markets, using £2 minimum stakes.
Wins 14. Strike rate 29%.
Average win 0.26p.
Average loss 0.59p.
Bank slowly disappearing.
If I had randomly traded the markets by backing every favourite at 1pm and traded out at the start of the race, I'd have had a better strike rate.
Can Bet Angel throw its customers a lifeline? How do you tell the difference between a good volatile swing market opportunity and a bad market. How do you sort the wheat from the chaff?
How can you help your customers succeed by winning and making them money, so they renew their subscriptions and recommend your product to others.
At the moment, I would warn people off.
What I've learnt so far isn't working. I just need a simple basic profitable strategy. Some rock solid foundation that I can build from. How the hell are you supposed to make money out of this. Any chance of turning this into a win/win situation.
If I were in your shoes, I'd start off by saying someting like, "Right, here goes, starting with a bank of let's say, £100. Minimum stakes of £2. Lesson 1, do this, try that for a day or a week or however long it takes. Once you have understood that, have a go at this for a while, next, do this, understand? Increase your bank like this. Good, up your stakes to £3. Now try this. X amount of races a day, grade 4 and above, 10 runners or more."
If anyone has the time to do this, you'll be making the world a better place.
If by any chance Bet Angel can afford to spend some time with me, all I can offer in return is to proof-read Bet Angel and Soccer Mystic User Manuals and Profitable Betting Exchanges Strategies. I've spotted a few mistakes in there that need correcting. I'll turn your can nots into cannots.
Will this misery ever end?
Au Revoir.
Tell Me Why I Don't Like Bank Holiday Mondays.
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andyfuller
- Posts: 4619
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:23 pm
I assume you mean warn people off trading rather than Bet Angel? Bet Angel only does what it is told so it isn't the fault of the software that you are losing.I)@v1d wrote: At the moment, I would warn people off.
Bank Holidays are manic for trading, yesterday there were races every 5 minutes, so spend some time thinking about how this will effect the markets. This will then lead to you further understanding the markets.
A few starters, races every 5 minutes mean that by the time one race finishes the next race will have only minutes to start. As such the real money, i.e. not trading money, will flow into the market in the last few minutes. There won't be long for them to get on so if you see a move beginning it is more likely to be a genuine move that could see a good swing like what occurred yesterday several times.
Also with the money coming in the last few moments this means erratic markets as people rush to get on or lay. Compare yesterdays markets to today where there is 15mins between races. What do you notice different?
Unfortunately trading isn't simplistic and as such you can't make a guide that says do A and B and C will occur. That is far to simplistic - each market is different to the last. Understanding this is important. There is heaps of useful info on this forum and in blogs but I am afraid you won't find a simple guide as you require, if you do I would be suspect of it as they are more likely to be after your cash than looking to help you.
Best of luck.
Buying a Mercedes doesn't make someone a good driver!I)@v1d wrote: Can Bet Angel throw its customers a lifeline?
How can you help your customers succeed by winning and making them money, so they renew their subscriptions and recommend your product to others.
At the moment, I would warn people off.
If by any chance Bet Angel can afford to spend some time with me, all I can offer in return is to proof-read Bet Angel and Soccer Mystic User Manuals and Profitable Betting Exchanges Strategies. I've spotted a few mistakes in there that need correcting. I'll turn your can nots into cannots.
The reason you're losing money trading, is because you're a poor trader
This is not BA's fault
in your first post and subsequent posts, you were offered advice. Have you taken any of it?
i mean have you taken on any of the suggestions made by several different people all if I remember correctly had different ways of seeing/going about things; over a long term not just a couple of days?
If you have I don’t believe you have fully grasped what as been said and I suggest you re-read all of them and do a search for other posts covering similar problems that you have.
Personally I think with all due respect you should consider stopping at least for a couple of months to get your head sorted out. Your last post was very grim and indicated that your mind aint in “tune” with trading so to speak.
You can’t have a negative attitude to any aspect of trading; again with all due respect you have a very negative attitude and hence you trade badly.
I don’t mean any of the above as a personal dig please don’t take it that way. I sincerely hope you get it together like loads of others evident by the replies your posts have received.
Seriously take the time to think things out.
Best of luck.
i mean have you taken on any of the suggestions made by several different people all if I remember correctly had different ways of seeing/going about things; over a long term not just a couple of days?
If you have I don’t believe you have fully grasped what as been said and I suggest you re-read all of them and do a search for other posts covering similar problems that you have.
Personally I think with all due respect you should consider stopping at least for a couple of months to get your head sorted out. Your last post was very grim and indicated that your mind aint in “tune” with trading so to speak.
You can’t have a negative attitude to any aspect of trading; again with all due respect you have a very negative attitude and hence you trade badly.
I don’t mean any of the above as a personal dig please don’t take it that way. I sincerely hope you get it together like loads of others evident by the replies your posts have received.
Seriously take the time to think things out.
Best of luck.
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lilgreenback
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:28 am
Hi there I)@v1d,
Never mind bank hol Mondays I have just been through FUBAR Tuesday have had a total mare the steady progress and confidence made blown out of the water.
It's a shame the realisation and soul searching comes afterwards; knowing what might have happened and did not. Unfotunately one blames everyone but one's self, the market the type of race the riders, the course.
Which dumb ass put the poor trades in ME who cut out to early ME. Once the chain reaction starts I think it is better to call it a day or watch; as the negative vibes just fester.
The timing was not right entry/exit points etc; what was the driving factor the need to win! The opportunity was there so you have to try. I just could not get it right today. No one to blame but me. The worst of it was I knew it to. Back to the drawing board again later this week.
I'll go an suck some lemons so I don't feel so bitter, every cloud an all that.
Take it easy folks
Cheers.
LilGB
Never mind bank hol Mondays I have just been through FUBAR Tuesday have had a total mare the steady progress and confidence made blown out of the water.
It's a shame the realisation and soul searching comes afterwards; knowing what might have happened and did not. Unfotunately one blames everyone but one's self, the market the type of race the riders, the course.
Which dumb ass put the poor trades in ME who cut out to early ME. Once the chain reaction starts I think it is better to call it a day or watch; as the negative vibes just fester.
The timing was not right entry/exit points etc; what was the driving factor the need to win! The opportunity was there so you have to try. I just could not get it right today. No one to blame but me. The worst of it was I knew it to. Back to the drawing board again later this week.
I'll go an suck some lemons so I don't feel so bitter, every cloud an all that.
Take it easy folks
Cheers.
LilGB
You guys whole problem is the expectation that you should be able to do it and blaming yourself / the world for when you can't do it. Learning to trade is a very very hard thing to do, most simply can't do it. How many 1000s of people have signed up for this forum alone, yet the consensus is that only 100 or so make decent regular profits from it. I appreciate the driving analogy, but it's just not the same. Most people can learn to drive a car. A more accurate analogy would probably be learning to drive competitively at say formula 3 level, there are 1000s of other people out there trying to do the same as you and only a certain amount of room at the top. Some are suited to this and some just aren't I'm afraid, there are plenty of other things you probably are suited to 
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mikesalter
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:30 pm
Good reading lilgreen's comments, I had an absolute mare yesterday after going around 14 or 15 days consistently in profit and having ramped up to £5 trades. Had thought I could 'see' tennis but crashed and burned on both one of the women and Federer last night. In both cases I didn't get out when my strategy was working but I wasn't making a profit and it became gambling. Instead of getting out and waiting for the market to settle in both cases I waited for the markets to come in further; that was the first £10 gone. Instinct said I should actually have laid Soderling when I backed Federer but I tried to believe a strategy that had worked previously on tennis would work again. If I had laid Soderling I would have made a quick profit of around 10 ticks. Poor decision making and impetuous trading, I have learnt from this.
On the horses I was making a steady profit but again against instinct went into a 4.5 odds trade with a back, was rushing to trade when I should have looked at the race and rejected it. End result the horse shot out to 10's in a matter of half a min and that was that. On the day I know my decision making was poor and its my fault (not betangel's). I also recognise there is no manual for this because the decision making is so complex and every trade is different. I would suggest that Adobe will sell you Photoshop and will also SELL you a complex manual on how to use their software but after 10 years editing images I still dont understand the half of it and I dont write to them when I mess up a photo. Ultimately the psychology is important, I wasn't prepared to accept an 85p loss and ended up losing £5 and this is something I have to overcome. The amounts are irrelevant at the moment but will be critical when I am working with £100 trades so its back to £2 trades until I get it right over 5 days again.
On the horses I was making a steady profit but again against instinct went into a 4.5 odds trade with a back, was rushing to trade when I should have looked at the race and rejected it. End result the horse shot out to 10's in a matter of half a min and that was that. On the day I know my decision making was poor and its my fault (not betangel's). I also recognise there is no manual for this because the decision making is so complex and every trade is different. I would suggest that Adobe will sell you Photoshop and will also SELL you a complex manual on how to use their software but after 10 years editing images I still dont understand the half of it and I dont write to them when I mess up a photo. Ultimately the psychology is important, I wasn't prepared to accept an 85p loss and ended up losing £5 and this is something I have to overcome. The amounts are irrelevant at the moment but will be critical when I am working with £100 trades so its back to £2 trades until I get it right over 5 days again.
I too got cleaned out yesterday, terrible terrible day. I had layed a horse at $66 to lose at 1.2, my bot had placed the bet In-Play and I chickened out at the last second, cancelling the bet, within seconds the horse hit lower than 1.2 then lost. Also, just missed another lay at 1.2 by a few seconds. Abysmal luck and terrible decision making. Confidence shot to peices 
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lilgreenback
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:28 am
Hi folks,
Hi Mike we can smile ruefully together as there is always another day at least I have not got any BP shares! (that is a god holy mess).
I see what your saying "hgodden" and I think that it is very true in many walks of life everyone has different abilities and at varying levels.
Yesterday was one of those days it's recognising that and dealing with it that takes the experiance I would think.
I have been very close "getting it right" this is variable (I would not be arrogant enough to suggest that this would be on a consistant basis) What I mean by that is that I have been calling the market moves correctly but then missing getting matched; the market then runs off in that direction this has resulted in me catching a fraction of the trend.
The interesting thing was that I then ran the video capture software over a number of trades and played them back this proved to be quite useful. Now I know that each market is unique, but what did stand out were certain aspects that I had never noticed before.
Very interesting stuff; anyway have a good day folks
Cheers
LilGB
Hi Mike we can smile ruefully together as there is always another day at least I have not got any BP shares! (that is a god holy mess).
I see what your saying "hgodden" and I think that it is very true in many walks of life everyone has different abilities and at varying levels.
Yesterday was one of those days it's recognising that and dealing with it that takes the experiance I would think.
I have been very close "getting it right" this is variable (I would not be arrogant enough to suggest that this would be on a consistant basis) What I mean by that is that I have been calling the market moves correctly but then missing getting matched; the market then runs off in that direction this has resulted in me catching a fraction of the trend.
The interesting thing was that I then ran the video capture software over a number of trades and played them back this proved to be quite useful. Now I know that each market is unique, but what did stand out were certain aspects that I had never noticed before.
Very interesting stuff; anyway have a good day folks
Cheers
LilGB
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mikesalter
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:30 pm
Lilg,
Calling the markets correctly is as you recognise only half the problem, its getting matched. Is there any way (possibly using excel)you can have a lay or bet order that holds at the sub-optimum price but fills when the price goes past it. Lets say its trading at 2.0 and you offer to lay at 2.06 but that only gets filled if the price moves quickly through 2.02 and 2.04, you then catch the market spikes that occur and bet out of the trade as soon as it stops.You would need it to register time as well as price movement so it picked up on the rapid big swings rather than steady drift which as we know can stop and turn back just as rapidly.
Calling the markets correctly is as you recognise only half the problem, its getting matched. Is there any way (possibly using excel)you can have a lay or bet order that holds at the sub-optimum price but fills when the price goes past it. Lets say its trading at 2.0 and you offer to lay at 2.06 but that only gets filled if the price moves quickly through 2.02 and 2.04, you then catch the market spikes that occur and bet out of the trade as soon as it stops.You would need it to register time as well as price movement so it picked up on the rapid big swings rather than steady drift which as we know can stop and turn back just as rapidly.
Mike,
That's just a simple FILL-KILL order isnt't it? Sure, I do this already, the price is chosen to be off-set 1 tick below the optimal to ensure you catch the move and FILL KILL, the other side of the trade only goes in when the initial bet is matched and only for the amount matched, any unmatched is killed.
That's just a simple FILL-KILL order isnt't it? Sure, I do this already, the price is chosen to be off-set 1 tick below the optimal to ensure you catch the move and FILL KILL, the other side of the trade only goes in when the initial bet is matched and only for the amount matched, any unmatched is killed.
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mikesalter
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:30 pm
Ah, thought it must be an obvious strategy but didn't know how to do it. Have only been trading manually because I wont go to automation until I am confident I understand the markets as far as is possible. Im not going to trust the computer to do it until I know myself 
David -
Why not get the free version of Camtasia, record yourself trading a few races and upload it to YouTube, and perhaps the guys here can tell you where you're going wrong.
Jeff
Why not get the free version of Camtasia, record yourself trading a few races and upload it to YouTube, and perhaps the guys here can tell you where you're going wrong.
Jeff
I)@v1d wrote:1 June 2010.
Horse Racing -£15
7 hours trading, 47 horse racing markets, using £2 minimum stakes.
Wins 14. Strike rate 29%.
Average win 0.26p.
Average loss 0.59p.
Bank slowly disappearing.
If I had randomly traded the markets by backing every favourite at 1pm and traded out at the start of the race, I'd have had a better strike rate.
Can Bet Angel throw its customers a lifeline? How do you tell the difference between a good volatile swing market opportunity and a bad market. How do you sort the wheat from the chaff?
How can you help your customers succeed by winning and making them money, so they renew their subscriptions and recommend your product to others.
At the moment, I would warn people off.
What I've learnt so far isn't working. I just need a simple basic profitable strategy. Some rock solid foundation that I can build from. How the hell are you supposed to make money out of this. Any chance of turning this into a win/win situation.
If I were in your shoes, I'd start off by saying someting like, "Right, here goes, starting with a bank of let's say, £100. Minimum stakes of £2. Lesson 1, do this, try that for a day or a week or however long it takes. Once you have understood that, have a go at this for a while, next, do this, understand? Increase your bank like this. Good, up your stakes to £3. Now try this. X amount of races a day, grade 4 and above, 10 runners or more."
If anyone has the time to do this, you'll be making the world a better place.
If by any chance Bet Angel can afford to spend some time with me, all I can offer in return is to proof-read Bet Angel and Soccer Mystic User Manuals and Profitable Betting Exchanges Strategies. I've spotted a few mistakes in there that need correcting. I'll turn your can nots into cannots.
Will this misery ever end?
Au Revoir.
-
mikesalter
- Posts: 40
- Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 1:30 pm
Had a better day yesterday, I lost money but that was due to a couple of errors using the software when trying to close out a position (accidentally clicked close on the prebet of £2 Doh). However more than ever before I made the right decisions when to go into markets, still not making the right decision to close a bad decision but at least I know that is an error and in 50% of instances where I needed to close I did close out for no profit or a small loss. The main change was anticipating that a price will come out more, I tracked prices and went in at exactly the right time probably 9 of 10 times and was only slightly out on the 10th.
In the tennis I realised I have to assess when I go into a trade is this gambling or is it a proper trading position that can reasonably expect a return. I rejected a trade that would have given a significant yield realising that if I had gone into it if there was one outcome I would make a loss and if the other I would make a profit but the loss would not be recoverable. That was gambling.
The losses of Tuesday made me realise that despite having made regular profits at a decent percentage over a couple of weeks I was in fact living on the edge, often recovering positions from bad decisions by a mixture of luck and quick thinking. An adjustment of my decision making yesterday meant that the profitable trades I made were based on good decisions and the losses just down to inexperience. Only by having the catastrophe of tuesday could I come round to this point and in that sense it was a very good thing.
In the tennis I realised I have to assess when I go into a trade is this gambling or is it a proper trading position that can reasonably expect a return. I rejected a trade that would have given a significant yield realising that if I had gone into it if there was one outcome I would make a loss and if the other I would make a profit but the loss would not be recoverable. That was gambling.
The losses of Tuesday made me realise that despite having made regular profits at a decent percentage over a couple of weeks I was in fact living on the edge, often recovering positions from bad decisions by a mixture of luck and quick thinking. An adjustment of my decision making yesterday meant that the profitable trades I made were based on good decisions and the losses just down to inexperience. Only by having the catastrophe of tuesday could I come round to this point and in that sense it was a very good thing.