Laying art higher odds

[nappy501]

Hi,

I am not sure how to explain this. Today was my first time using Bet Angel. The horse race I was looking at had odds of 1.44, however I wanted to lay at 1.99. So I clicked on 1.99 and it was immediately taken at 1.44. I wanted it to sit at 1.99 and then if the horse drifted for it to get matched.

Please could you point me to the instructions on how to do this. Thank you.

[ShaunWhite]

Was this on the ladder?
I use the ladder 99% of the time and I'm sure you can't do it there (maybe other users know a way in another screen).

The ladder is just for entering trades or orders directly to the market, not for holding a trade until a conditon is met. The ladder gives you the best possible price at that moment. It works in the same way as the Betfair site in that regard, and it won't allow you to do this either. Automation could do what you want, ie to trade if it spots drifters moving from one price to another etc but I'm guessing your trade was going to be a one off.

If you're trading manually anyway then I'm not sure why you'd want to do it this way? I'm curious because if you spot the start of the drift you are hoping for, you would probably be able to get a better price than 1.99 as the drift inevitably hesitated around 2.0 or by catching it as it approached 2.0.

Personally if I saw a 1.44 horse drift out to 2.0+ in the last ten minutes, and it looked perfectly well and happy, I'd be thinking about backing it
It takes a huge amount of money to get a horse to 1.44, especially on a Saturday and if it was sat there at a price 40% bigger than all those savvy punters wanted, i'd be very tempted to back it, you're far more brave than me if you want to lay it. What had they done? Kicked Ruby Walsh off and put Sam Alardyce on?

[nappy501]

Was this on the ladder?
I use the ladder 99% of the time and I'm sure you can't do it there (maybe other users know a way in another screen).

The ladder is just for entering trades or orders directly to the market, not for holding a trade until a conditon is met. The ladder gives you the best possible price at that moment. It works in the same way as the Betfair site in that regard, and it won't allow you to do this either. Automation could do what you want, ie to trade if it spots drifters moving from one price to another etc but I'm guessing your trade was going to be a one off.

If you're trading manually anyway then I'm not sure why you'd want to do it this way? I'm curious because if you spot the start of the drift you are hoping for, you would probably be able to get a better price than 1.99 as the drift inevitably hesitated around 2.0 or by catching it as it approached 2.0.

Personally if I saw a 1.44 horse drift out to 2.0+ in the last ten minutes, and it looked perfectly well and happy, I'd be thinking about backing it
It takes a huge amount of money to get a horse to 1.44, especially on a Saturday and if it was sat there at a price 40% bigger than all those savvy punters wanted, i'd be very tempted to back it, you're far more brave than me if you want to lay it. What had they done? Kicked Ruby Walsh off and put Sam Alardyce on?

Thanks for your reply. I think I am being slow. The horse was 1.44 prerace. I know that is a lot of money to say it is going to win, but it could still lose. I know that pre race I can pick a horse with lay odds of 3.95, but on the ladder I can place a lay bet at 2.00 or 1.99 odds and it will be unmatched. When the race starts, my bet maybe matched at 1.99, but this doesn't work the other way round. I think I have to go away and think about it.

[ShaunWhite]

Thanks for your reply. I think I am being slow. The horse was 1.44 prerace. I know that is a lot of money to say it is going to win, but it could still lose. I know that pre race I can pick a horse with lay odds of 3.95, but on the ladder I can place a lay bet at 2.00 or 1.99 odds and it will be unmatched. When the race starts, my bet maybe matched at 1.99, but this doesn't work the other way round. I think I have to go away and think about it.

Oh I agree it, can still lose. I was just pointing out that if something is 1.44 all day and then suddenly trades at 2.0, it starts to look like value for money whether you think it will win or not. You're getting the chance to sell a horse with generally accepted 70% chance of winning for the price of one with a 50% chance of winning. I don't gamble traditionally but I would if I could get that deal every day.

Maybe it will help you to think of laying like buying something. If you offer to pay a large price it will be taken. If you only want to pay a low price, the price must fall before people want to deal with you. Backing is the opposite, it's like selling, a large asking price will be unattractive to people but if you only want a small price will be taken instantly.

It's all just buying and selling bets instead of shares or wheat. You want buy (lay) low and sell (back) high. or the otherway round of course. That is why the odds are refered to as the 'Price'.

All that might just confuse you but sometimes another interpretation of what's going on helps it to click.


Happy to help, everyone's got to start somewhere.

[nappy501]

Thanks for your reply. I think I am being slow. The horse was 1.44 prerace. I know that is a lot of money to say it is going to win, but it could still lose. I know that pre race I can pick a horse with lay odds of 3.95, but on the ladder I can place a lay bet at 2.00 or 1.99 odds and it will be unmatched. When the race starts, my bet maybe matched at 1.99, but this doesn't work the other way round. I think I have to go away and think about it.

Oh I agree it, can still lose. I was just pointing out that if something is 1.44 all day and then suddenly trades at 2.0, it starts to look like value for money whether you think it will win or not. You're getting the chance to sell a horse with generally accepted 70% chance of winning for the price of one with a 50% chance of winning. I don't gamble traditionally but I would if I could get that deal every day.

Maybe it will help you to think of laying like buying something. If you offer to pay a large price it will be taken. If you only want to pay a low price, the price must fall before people want to deal with you. Backing is the opposite, it's like selling, a large asking price will be unattractive to people but if you only want a small price will be taken instantly.

It's all just buying and selling bets instead of shares or wheat. You want buy (lay) low and sell (back) high. or the otherway round of course. That is why the odds are refered to as the 'Price'.

All that might just confuse you but sometimes another interpretation of what's going on helps it to click.


Happy to help, everyone's got to start somewhere.

Ah, bless you. That is an excellent explanation as to why I can't lay at 1.99 when the price is at 1.44.

[ShaunWhite]

Thank you, I'm glad it helped.

The only way Bet Angel can assist in getting around that 'problem' is with automation. That enables you to say things like 'if lay price = 1.99 then lay £x, with a stop loss etc etc" It's intended for people who want to use the same strategy in multiple races but not much help to you in ad hoc situations.
Until then, just keep your mouse poised on that target price, ready to click when it's reached. You'll get better results that way too as you'll be in a better position to judge if the price will continue to drift or if it's peaked.