I guess quinny,s post was aimed at me!
I would gladly replace every red with £o.oo
The whole idea behind the original post was about loss contol,risk management call it what you will, which I have found to be very important in turning around my own trading. The ability to scratch a potential loser means for one thing the beginner trader(me included) is starting to READ the markets and understand the way prices are matched and traded,
as from some of the posts in newbies were from new traders who had incured very heavy losses.
The trade does not have to finish with a scratch after all, it might well be a new entry point.
all the best
chris
Learning to trade
Chris, I think you are close to learning something which will help make your trading more consistent. It is a fine line that most won't cross but it seems you have a very good chance.
The thing I have learned most when helping people to learn trading is that what you must learn quickly is not necessarily how to protect your bank.In most(but not all) cases this stifles learning. Your bank when learning should be 'A Learning Tool' £20 is enough.
Two years later, seriously, you will/should have enough data and info to take the next step.
When you later become more proficient, protecting your bank becomes THE most important point!!!!
I am not naturally gifted at this. I have struggled and pulled my hair out, been on Peter's course as early as 2005, lost many banks (many) and been very low at the elusivity of it all. I am old and I know that has hindered my progress. About 18 months ago I had a telephone conversation and several emails with Peter Le, a member on here. I relayed some of these thoughts to my girlfriend and she said something which totally changed everything about how I structured my trading.
Long story short... I believe most people (on this forum for example) can make consistent profits trading if they are determined, persistent and mentally/emotionally flexible enough.
The main mistake I made was taking what experienced traders said, at face value. They don't generally understand or know how to show people HOW to progress from learner status. That's why most spouses make lousy Drinving Instructors!
Understand yourself - google it.
The thing I have learned most when helping people to learn trading is that what you must learn quickly is not necessarily how to protect your bank.In most(but not all) cases this stifles learning. Your bank when learning should be 'A Learning Tool' £20 is enough.
Two years later, seriously, you will/should have enough data and info to take the next step.
When you later become more proficient, protecting your bank becomes THE most important point!!!!
I am not naturally gifted at this. I have struggled and pulled my hair out, been on Peter's course as early as 2005, lost many banks (many) and been very low at the elusivity of it all. I am old and I know that has hindered my progress. About 18 months ago I had a telephone conversation and several emails with Peter Le, a member on here. I relayed some of these thoughts to my girlfriend and she said something which totally changed everything about how I structured my trading.
Long story short... I believe most people (on this forum for example) can make consistent profits trading if they are determined, persistent and mentally/emotionally flexible enough.
The main mistake I made was taking what experienced traders said, at face value. They don't generally understand or know how to show people HOW to progress from learner status. That's why most spouses make lousy Drinving Instructors!
Understand yourself - google it.
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charto2010
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:23 am
quinny
thanks for the reply.
your so right about understanding yourself!
I,ve already factored self monitoring into my trading plan/philosophy.
at the end of last week I made a major error of judgement, I was trading the greyhound markets and I was pushing it to the 'limit' when I got caught in an open position by an early suspension (about 10secs early) which cost me -£190.00 from my £500 bank.
so learn from it and move on!
during the week I traded quite well on the horse racing markets, Daily P&L as follows
13 june + £8.63
14 june + £15.82
15 june + £18.35
16 june + £32.66
17 june + £27.32
18 june + £38.80
The interesting thing about yesterday(18 june)was I seemed to reach a ceiling as my bank hovered around £400 mark, I was again pushing hard, perhaps getting a bit too agressive,past my level of experience?
but I realised what was happening, reverted back to my trade plan, which is basically scalping low risk-high probabiliy trading and then comfortably moved on to end up with my bank at £431.
I think it helps when trying to BUILD a decent daily total to try and adopt the mentality of a test batsman
picking up singles here and there with the odd boundary thrown in for good measure, consistency! now another factor of my trade plan.
all best
chris
thanks for the reply.
your so right about understanding yourself!
I,ve already factored self monitoring into my trading plan/philosophy.
at the end of last week I made a major error of judgement, I was trading the greyhound markets and I was pushing it to the 'limit' when I got caught in an open position by an early suspension (about 10secs early) which cost me -£190.00 from my £500 bank.
so learn from it and move on!
during the week I traded quite well on the horse racing markets, Daily P&L as follows
13 june + £8.63
14 june + £15.82
15 june + £18.35
16 june + £32.66
17 june + £27.32
18 june + £38.80
The interesting thing about yesterday(18 june)was I seemed to reach a ceiling as my bank hovered around £400 mark, I was again pushing hard, perhaps getting a bit too agressive,past my level of experience?
but I realised what was happening, reverted back to my trade plan, which is basically scalping low risk-high probabiliy trading and then comfortably moved on to end up with my bank at £431.
I think it helps when trying to BUILD a decent daily total to try and adopt the mentality of a test batsman
picking up singles here and there with the odd boundary thrown in for good measure, consistency! now another factor of my trade plan.
all best
chris
-
charto2010
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:23 am
hi john,
after alot of experimentation, I use a maximum stake of 10% of my trading bank. I find this suits me.
I also adjust it after each trading session so that my stake rises or falls with my bank. It also leaves plenty available to place open orders out of money in case I get MULLERED by the mad bomber!!!!!!!!!
all the best
chris
after alot of experimentation, I use a maximum stake of 10% of my trading bank. I find this suits me.
I also adjust it after each trading session so that my stake rises or falls with my bank. It also leaves plenty available to place open orders out of money in case I get MULLERED by the mad bomber!!!!!!!!!
all the best
chris
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charto2010
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:23 am
John I should also add:
I,m currently focusing on increasing my turnover during a race/market, a point Peter has raised time and time again, during one race at lingfield last night I managed a greened up profit of £4.24 but made 40 different trades during that event.
My P&L per market is around £0.86 to £1.22, but over 20+
markets they start to build into a decent daily total coupled with a steady increase in stake size helps towards progress. Practice,Practice & more Practice.
As quinny rightly hinted the answers are in our heads and here in this forum. (masses of information!)
I,m currently focusing on increasing my turnover during a race/market, a point Peter has raised time and time again, during one race at lingfield last night I managed a greened up profit of £4.24 but made 40 different trades during that event.
My P&L per market is around £0.86 to £1.22, but over 20+
markets they start to build into a decent daily total coupled with a steady increase in stake size helps towards progress. Practice,Practice & more Practice.
As quinny rightly hinted the answers are in our heads and here in this forum. (masses of information!)
Thank you for the info.
I'm doing very similar things just lower stakes and more loses lol. My current problem is although i have less losses than winners my losers are proportionally bigger than my wins.
I'm just getting into the habit of placing stop losses and fighting back from a losing position to net zero or small profit.
I try to do three to four hours a day during the 'quality' hours. I'm fairly determined to have a good go at this.
John
I'm doing very similar things just lower stakes and more loses lol. My current problem is although i have less losses than winners my losers are proportionally bigger than my wins.
I'm just getting into the habit of placing stop losses and fighting back from a losing position to net zero or small profit.
I try to do three to four hours a day during the 'quality' hours. I'm fairly determined to have a good go at this.
John
Hi new to this site. I have a couple of questions as I've seen how badly scalping systems can go wrong, and wipe out several races of hard earned profits in catching the wrong side of a steamer.
Would you recommend any particular rules?
i.e. price range, lay to back / back to lay or only trade on favourites?
Would you recommend any particular rules?
i.e. price range, lay to back / back to lay or only trade on favourites?
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charto2010
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:23 am
hi cheops55
I feel the answer is in your question so to speak!
A steamer is a market thats shortening or coming in at some rate so scalping may not be the strategy to employ in this instance. Definitely you should be looking to get a back order matched asap. how long you hold onto the position is then a decision you have to make (swing trade). I feel some time just observing the market is time well spent looking for its range of movement etc etc.
I'm of the opinion that 'when scalping' its best to scratch the trade immediately, its an individual decision, have you set any sort of pre-defined risk per trade?
It would be interesting to see other newbie users views...........
all the best
chris
I feel the answer is in your question so to speak!
A steamer is a market thats shortening or coming in at some rate so scalping may not be the strategy to employ in this instance. Definitely you should be looking to get a back order matched asap. how long you hold onto the position is then a decision you have to make (swing trade). I feel some time just observing the market is time well spent looking for its range of movement etc etc.
I'm of the opinion that 'when scalping' its best to scratch the trade immediately, its an individual decision, have you set any sort of pre-defined risk per trade?
It would be interesting to see other newbie users views...........
all the best
chris
Hi Charto
Thanks for your reply.
Was looking at 3 tick profit/risk, primarily lay first, back to hedge. Worked well for several days, bank up 25%, then copped two steamers in a row (that both won
), in both cases I saw the money indicate a drift up to 5 minutes from the off and then plunged over a point in literally seconds.
I'm currently paper trading (which of course means pretty much every market will turn out as you predict
), and obviously trying to guage how much systems like betangel might help avoid big losses when you get on the wrong side of one.
Thanks for your reply.
Was looking at 3 tick profit/risk, primarily lay first, back to hedge. Worked well for several days, bank up 25%, then copped two steamers in a row (that both won
), in both cases I saw the money indicate a drift up to 5 minutes from the off and then plunged over a point in literally seconds. I'm currently paper trading (which of course means pretty much every market will turn out as you predict
), and obviously trying to guage how much systems like betangel might help avoid big losses when you get on the wrong side of one.-
lilgreenback
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:28 am
Hi,
Try using the video capture software and record the trades you are doing, I have mentioned it in the past as have others. You can play pack for posterity (or embarrassment, your thinking and decision making) You also see how hesitent and indecisive you can be. I thought the compter had crashed no it was me thinking
When starting out thats OK but it will inhibit your progress. The other thing with it is you can see other things you may not have noticed couple that with paper or small stakes trading to look at differing markets and you have a basis to compare and contrast what went right/wrong but more importantly why.
You may or may not find it helpful but try it it can't hurt.
Cheers
LilGB
Try using the video capture software and record the trades you are doing, I have mentioned it in the past as have others. You can play pack for posterity (or embarrassment, your thinking and decision making) You also see how hesitent and indecisive you can be. I thought the compter had crashed no it was me thinking
When starting out thats OK but it will inhibit your progress. The other thing with it is you can see other things you may not have noticed couple that with paper or small stakes trading to look at differing markets and you have a basis to compare and contrast what went right/wrong but more importantly why.
You may or may not find it helpful but try it it can't hurt.
Cheers
LilGB
hi LilGB,
Ive just read your post and Im very keen to give this a go. Where do I find the video capture software?
Also Ive been studying the charting facility in betangel and find it impossible to chose the ideal settings. Is there anwhere I can read up on the charting to help me chose the best settings and use it most proficiently (other than betangel user guide which I have read several times).
Many thanks
Ducksoup
Ive just read your post and Im very keen to give this a go. Where do I find the video capture software?
Also Ive been studying the charting facility in betangel and find it impossible to chose the ideal settings. Is there anwhere I can read up on the charting to help me chose the best settings and use it most proficiently (other than betangel user guide which I have read several times).
Many thanks
Ducksoup
Screen recording software is discussed in the following thread:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=309&p=11030&hilit=record#p11030
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=309&p=11030&hilit=record#p11030
-
lilgreenback
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:28 am
Hi
Yep Spikey was right "Screen recording software"; is a more accurate way of describing it. I could'nt remember what it was called.
The Two I've used is camstudio and the trial version of camtasia (camtasia one you have to buy, but it is pro quality and if you where doing other presentations ot things it would be worth it) The camstudio is easy to use but it will only capture 1 screen at a time.
Take some time to print out the manual camstudio is straight forward but the other one has all sorts of features packed into it
There was talk that camtasia took up a lot of memory so you may need to alter some settings, but my computer copes with it a Core 2 Quad 6600 (old by today’s jiggery pokery but stable)
You can video the market and play it back at your leisure. Although every market is different they tend to display similar characteristics at times though nothing is guaranteed.
It may pay to look at certain factors in the Races and remember what took place. Look for the grade of race (G1, G2 or grade 5 etc) the markets will vary depending on the quality.
Also look at the odds ranges the horses have traded at ie are they being matched in a narrow "funnel" of prices or are the moving all over the shop.
The chart settings is a personal choice but it may be an idea to watch the videos and see what others have ticked and used.
A cop out I know but if it's good enough for them it'll do for me. I don't know why I never thought to ask
But they are the 4 on the back side "blue back price", "yellow qk mov av", "lt green slow mov av", "drk green price envelope back" Then the blue WOM lines.
The WOM lines are quite important as that can give a good indication if the money is going in or out the caveat to that is the spoof money but you will need to watch the amout going through the book what has been matched and how stable the market is etc.
Hence the video to watch it all again, again "It's cold out there it's Ground Hog Day". I found it really valuable and I kick myself I never did it earlier.
Oh an the other constant that we all ignore remember small stakes (or what you are comfortable with) an Never In Play.
Best wishes with it
LilGB
Yep Spikey was right "Screen recording software"; is a more accurate way of describing it. I could'nt remember what it was called.
The Two I've used is camstudio and the trial version of camtasia (camtasia one you have to buy, but it is pro quality and if you where doing other presentations ot things it would be worth it) The camstudio is easy to use but it will only capture 1 screen at a time.
Take some time to print out the manual camstudio is straight forward but the other one has all sorts of features packed into it
There was talk that camtasia took up a lot of memory so you may need to alter some settings, but my computer copes with it a Core 2 Quad 6600 (old by today’s jiggery pokery but stable)
You can video the market and play it back at your leisure. Although every market is different they tend to display similar characteristics at times though nothing is guaranteed.
It may pay to look at certain factors in the Races and remember what took place. Look for the grade of race (G1, G2 or grade 5 etc) the markets will vary depending on the quality.
Also look at the odds ranges the horses have traded at ie are they being matched in a narrow "funnel" of prices or are the moving all over the shop.
The chart settings is a personal choice but it may be an idea to watch the videos and see what others have ticked and used.
A cop out I know but if it's good enough for them it'll do for me. I don't know why I never thought to ask
But they are the 4 on the back side "blue back price", "yellow qk mov av", "lt green slow mov av", "drk green price envelope back" Then the blue WOM lines.
The WOM lines are quite important as that can give a good indication if the money is going in or out the caveat to that is the spoof money but you will need to watch the amout going through the book what has been matched and how stable the market is etc.
Hence the video to watch it all again, again "It's cold out there it's Ground Hog Day". I found it really valuable and I kick myself I never did it earlier.
Oh an the other constant that we all ignore remember small stakes (or what you are comfortable with) an Never In Play.
Best wishes with it
LilGB