The Dark Side of Trading/Gambling

[Rstrach]

I come to posting this as im sure im not the only one who has been intrigued by the various gambling syndicates around the world using weird and intricate techniques to get a very tangible edge over the bookmakers and exchanges of the world.

Through the forum i have gone on to do my own research on syndicates and the techniques used including courtsiding, match fixing etc. I am intrigued to know have any users on here ever seen or come into contact with people involved in the business of this or have any stories to share?

[Euler]

There are at least five major syndicates in London who I have visited. I was introduced to one of them by a chance meeting in Switzerland amazingly.

There are loads of smaller ones but they tend to be specialists in certain areas. Most of the ones I have met don't do anything dodgy, they are just on the cutting edge of what they do.

Out of respect for the people I've met I can't really talk about them or what they do. But they seem to compete with each other more than or much as you and I.

[Rstrach]

There are at least five major syndicates in London who I have visited. I was introduced to one of them by a chance meeting in Switzerland amazingly.

There are loads of smaller ones but they tend to be specialists in certain areas. Most of the ones I have met don't do anything dodgy, they are just on the cutting edge of what they do.

Out of respect for the people I've met I can't really talk about them or what they do. But they seem to compete with each other more than or much as you and I.

Finally a reply! Lol, amazing im aware of a few based in london. One in particular a rather famous football chairman owns.. camden located. I hope to visit but i wonder will they chuck me out? haha!!

[steven1976]

I met the guy from the old Sporting options last year who claims to still be strongly involved in the markets and has a number of people working with them. I think it was mentioned that for BD they are up to 70% of the matches amounts on horses mainly on the back of BF with speed. Whether there is any truth in it, i have no idea.

[Rstrach]

I met the guy from the old Sporting options last year who claims to still be strongly involved in the markets and has a number of people working with them. I think it was mentioned that for BD they are up to 70% of the matches amounts on horses mainly on the back of BF with speed. Whether there is any truth in it, i have no idea.

Ahh i have heard of former BF staff running syndicates and perhaps using their knowledge of markets and how the platform works to give an edge. just had to google sporting options as i was only 7 at time of closing! . A lot of hear say but not much confirmed facts perhaps thats why i am curious as i am

[Euler]

The main battle is Brentford vs Brighton, but there is one other club that nobody knows about that has benefitted from stats. I think they were smart to keep it under wraps.

[LeTiss]

Wasn't the fella at Brentford, also invlolved with the Danish side that put Saints out of the Europa League last season, FC Midtjylland?

[Euler]

Yes, Matt Benford

[SeaHorseRacing]

Speaking of the dark side of betting exchanges.

I have had a lot of time to reflect today after witnessing something and although with all the bullshit going on in this world right now from a non political view and based on my own interest I see a good fit to mention this here.
The three biggest sports horse racing, tennis and football is going on a downward curve and I think the exchanges are 50% of the problem.
This may sound completely hypocritical but the exchanges are bad for sport. Dont get me wrong the bookies are the lowest of the low. I hate them, they are high street casino scums who prey on the vulnerable but as this is a forum about trading and the exchanges. I truly believe that trading is damaging our sport and additionally laying on the exchanges.

Trading is my lively-hood and I am extremely passionate about it but theirs a time and place to fully admit what we do is wrong. Trading the racing markets is actually a really unethical way to make money and I think the more and more who learn from trading are taking away what sport really is about.

The purpose of gambling on sports is based on an outcome of the race, but with the likes of pre race trading that is not the case. We are leaches sucking the good out of mug punters. Yes if your a wining punter thats great but if everybody was winners the exchange wouldnt exist.

Its not the same but Its the best way I can explain it. Traditional Gambling is becoming of age, Its abit like buying gold that you keep in your safe to purchasing it through an online broker to sell as a profit if its goes up or down. I took the day off trading today for Newmarket and I have only been into racing for 10 years but the change in one meeting is really concerning. The exchanges are taking the punters away from the tracks. The bookies no longer book make and rely on the exchanges to price their odds. The exchanges are creating the odds whilst the bookies follow it with their edge added on.

I honestly believe for the sake of our sports that the exchanges should be run differently. I fully understand that the value for gamblers are always in the exchanges and I am fully aware of the scum called bookmakers, but I do hope for the love of sport that eventually the two will meet as one. I truly believe the right way forward would be stop laying on the exchanges.

The public should not be allowed direct access to laying a horse. I have connections within the industry and experience and I know a lot of laying that goes on.

I know the exchanges have been around for some time and people never thought they would still be here today but I truly believe they will vanish eventually. The government and public are really onto the bookies and their fobts and when justice is finally served there will be a new vision in the spotlight and that will be how the exchanges are ruining the nations sports.
At the end of the day the bookmakers employ a lot of people and additionally the sports do... with the strain of these retail casinos coming towards their end I can see the exchanges slowing going down hill.
Betfair are screwing all winners and yet there is still noone even close to knocking them off their pedal stall..

I never thought I would say it and this maybe because trading is an ends meet for something I want to pursue later on but I think for the benefit of all that the bookies change their tune and the exchanges either trade and lay there own markets for tiny overround markets or they finally vanish for the benefit of the sport.
I witnessed a domestic argument today because the other half put an extra £200 on a well fancied horse. When he walked back to stands and was standing next to me explaining to his wife/girlfriend what he had just done. Turns out she said they cannot even afford there rent next week if it doesnt win.
I only decided to go racing today because I had word of a horse that wasnt trying and I layed it... turns out it was the same horse.

At the end of the day... the mugs are always going to lose... the overround makes no difference it just means your lose a bit less abit slower... but the way a gambler works it is completely irreverent, they only need one loss to lose everything and thats usually the case. The tiny margins on betfair make no difference to most compulsive gamblers. Gamblers will lose everything no matter the edge.

I will get a lot stick and told about how great exchanges are and tbh I am not really interested. I just thought I would share the honest truth about the exchanges. At the same time... I dont really want to lose my edge tomorrow and I hope its full of mugs so I can make a few quid..
I am a hypocrite... but certainly conscious of the related of my profits and how I am really making some decent money that is technically legalised crime

Enjoy the summer racing everyone. Peace

[ShaunWhite]

You can keep your vision of a nanny state, protecting us from the harm we might do ourselves. Why stop at banning laying? Why not ban all gambling in your world, that's far more harmful isn't it?

The exchanges are taking the punters away from the tracks.

It might have taken a few hardcore 'punters' away but if you want a big crowd and atmosphere, people are there for entertainment 1st and a flutter 2nd. Wimbledon still seems to be full without everyone needing to gamble within arms reach, ditto football or rugby.

Remember too that it was midweek, everyone's at work. But when you do go with the family on a Sunday, don't cross the velvet rope, don't try and talk to the owners and jockeys, don't expect the kids to get a pony ride, don't get hungry because the 'resturant' is shut, don't video it on your phone, don't wear jeans if you want a drink in the nice bit, don't expect to be warm and undercover and still see, don't expect a decent commentary or enough screens, don't try and get there on a bus and don't expect any freebies. It's all just a bit crap.

Also, horse racing is all themed around gambling, none of the other sports (excl dogs) seem to need it. Is horse racing scared that without betting, it's not really offering much in the way of 'sport' ?

At least exchanges have given 'punters' another reason to be interested in sports betting and more importantly a wider range of sports in general. It's put money on the table and eyes on adverts. Your horseracing experience may have been diluted but a more diverse range of sports are flourishing now as a result of the additional money surrounding them.

btw you're not sharing 'the truth about exchanges', just your opinion.

[LinusP]

What a bizzare post, you don't need an exchange to lay a horse, the problem isn't the exchange its those that are not playing fair and that is always going to be the case.

[Anna List]

My understanding is that a lot of the liquidity on the exchanges is provided by traders. I'm not a trader. I'm not intelligent enough nor do I have the skills to trade. I'm a layer. Without trader money, laying would be far more problematical for me so, traders, thanks for all the liquidity.

If I wanted to lay and exchanges didn't exist, I'd have to go to all the trouble and expense of setting up a company, buying the kit, buying pitches at racecourses etc., etc. and becoming a (scum) bookie. It would cost a small fortune. Because of exchanges, I can do this for naff all outlay. Now that's progress. It allows me to compete with the big boys - albeit on a smaller scale.

Also, without exchanges, I doubt that certain entities in racing would continue to exist, given the state of the prize money in racing's lower echelons. Nuff said about that methinks.

One last thing.

Why do we eat in restaurants when we can get the same food from supermarkets at a fraction of the cost and cook it at home?

Experience.

We do it to experience eating out.

Exchanges aren't ruining racing. Not imho.

People still go racing and will continue to do so, regardless of the exchanges.

The good folks on here know and understand betting exchanges. However, there's a large proportion of society that hasn't clue 1 about exchanges nor how they work. They still put bets on at the track because that's all part of the experience that is racing.

I saw a photo on this forum recently which showed a deserted Wolverhampton racecourse. These things happen, regardless of the exchanges. Let's face it. Wolverhampton on a cold Tuesday evening in April isn't Royal Ascot or Cheltenham.

At the end of the day, life changes. It moves on. The rate at which life changes is ever increasing. If business wants to endure, it needs to change and reflect the needs of the changing society. Racing (and bookies) are no different.

Anna

[RentonT]

btw you're not sharing 'the truth about exchanges', just your opinion.

+1

On course bookies are not going to be what they used to be and are a dying breed. Because they can't offer and compete to win their customers business. That is just evolution. Look at the empty trading floors of what used to be the stock exchange.

Focus should be on catching the people that don't play fair on the exchange. In all areas of life there are people taking advantages and cheating, rules always getting bent etc. Corruption is everywhere, and I think it is down to everyone to look after themselves. I firmly believe in building your own infrastructure. Build your own pension, don't rely on others. Take responsibility. The problem with most people is they don't question how they are living their life properly. Ask yourself what you really want and figure out how you can achieve it, it's powerful when you discover all about it.

Problem gamblers are like alcoholics and drug addicts, it's not the exchanges fault.

[ShaunWhite]

I have connections within the industry and experience and I know a lot of laying that goes on.

I only decided to go racing today because I had word of a horse that wasnt trying

I assume you'd be prepared to report this activity to the police and racing authorities? They would be very interested in your public admission that you have firm evidence that a crime was committed and that you knowingly benefitted from this crime. As a law abiding citizen that cares about race fixing, give me one reason why I shouldn't make the authorities aware of your involvement in this fraud.

[Rstrach]

I have connections within the industry and experience and I know a lot of laying that goes on.

I only decided to go racing today because I had word of a horse that wasnt trying

I assume you'd be prepared to report this activity to the police and racing authorities? They would be very interested in your public admission that you have firm evidence that a crime was committed and that you knowingly benefitted from this crime. As a law abiding citizen that cares about race fixing, give me one reason why I shouldn't make the authorities aware of your involvement in this fraud.

Had to double take, i doubt his claims are genuine and if so.. who would be so stupid to share this lol have they not heard of that once famous plump trainer with the champ jockeys