This one's serious. What the hell is going on in Vauxhall. "Run and hide, tell" !!!
I hope jimibt's warning about hostage taking isn't coming true.
edit:obv I don't mean the the other incidents weren't serious.
UK General Election **June 8th**
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 10399
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
We're a bit short of police and military but the ones we've got are bl**dy brilliant. So are our intelligence agencies. We'll win against these fools.
To be 100% fair on Mrs May, how on earth can she focus on EU negotiations with an election and all this going on. I actually feel sorry for her, no wonder she seems like a chaotic mess at the moment, I think a lot of people would be.
There's a lot of huge issues at the moment, perhaps it's time for a temporary national coalition govt, like in ww2 until the negotiations are over. It's about time they all worked together 24/7 on us, not the arguing over detail, the egos and career chasing. Politics was more honest when it was dull and grey rather than all this trying to be distinctive which rules out a lot of reasonable ideas because they just acuse each other of copying.
What i'm trying to say is Corbyn and May need to be more like Jack Sprat and his wife (google the saying if you don't know it) for the benefit of all of us. Elections and refs are simply too close for the real answers to be so polarised.
To be 100% fair on Mrs May, how on earth can she focus on EU negotiations with an election and all this going on. I actually feel sorry for her, no wonder she seems like a chaotic mess at the moment, I think a lot of people would be.
There's a lot of huge issues at the moment, perhaps it's time for a temporary national coalition govt, like in ww2 until the negotiations are over. It's about time they all worked together 24/7 on us, not the arguing over detail, the egos and career chasing. Politics was more honest when it was dull and grey rather than all this trying to be distinctive which rules out a lot of reasonable ideas because they just acuse each other of copying.
What i'm trying to say is Corbyn and May need to be more like Jack Sprat and his wife (google the saying if you don't know it) for the benefit of all of us. Elections and refs are simply too close for the real answers to be so polarised.
Last edited by ShaunWhite on Sun Jun 04, 2017 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ShaunWhite
- Posts: 10399
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am
You are right about this....SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:43 pmWe need to take action in countries like Libya, Egypt now. Get a lid on the countries while we can whilst they live in civilisation.. one day it will be too late and it will be simply to unsafe to even leave our country.
Official figures show that the eight-month military intervention unleashed by David Cameron in support of rebels fighting Colonel Gadaffi’s regime cost £320 million. But efforts to stabilise the country following Gaddafi’s death and the collapse of his government have amounted to just £25m, which has failed to prevent Libya from sliding into chaos as feuding militias battle for control.
Also ,
Saudi Arabia is said to be the world's largest source of funds and promoter of Salafist jihadism, which forms the ideological basis of terrorist groups such as al-Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS and others. Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide. According to a leaked 2009 paper signed by the US secretary of state, "Saudi Arabia remains a critical financial support base for al-Qaida, the Taliban, LeT and other terrorist groups."
...Trump just sold them $110 BILLION dollars worth of arms !!! Has the ultimate deal maker done a deal for them not to bomb the US? and so they focus on europe? When was the last time the USA had a bombing or what we're getting?
I know my opinions are usually (very) unpopular but please please read these facts on wiki....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-spo ... udi_Arabia
People were warned Trump was dangerous for us, and they can see why now. Good for the US maybe, but not for the rest of the world.
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ShaunWhite
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Last word :SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:43 pmGive all Muslims the free opportunity to take lie detector tests.
I respect that people here share their sports knowledge, so without a hint of sarcasm, can I pass on some of my nerdier knowledge ...
Muslims : Two types
Regular Sunni or Shai Muslims : Lovely bunch of lads, big in south-east asia, Malaysia, Indonesia etc (fun places? yep), peaceful, a lot like we are. Like the 3 guys from Derby on gogglebox or your doctor, or the Mayor of London.
Wahhabis: Absolute b@stards. They hate the regular Muslims as much as they hate us. That's why you hear about ISIS etc (who are Wahhabis, sometimes refered to as Salafist) bombing mosques which sounds confusing at first. They are trying to take over and do big recruitment drives to get regular Muslim youth (both Sunni and Shai) to be a 'proper' Muslim. Wahhabi terrorist groups call themselves Sunni Muslims, but they're not, because 95% of the 2.8m Muslims in the UK are Sunni, and I promise you that if all Sunni Muslims were also Wahhabis, we'd bl**dy know about it!
Wahhabism is a Muslim cult, a tiny minority. Best guess is approx 0.82% (23,000/2.8m), and much much less than that with the actual balls to do anything apart from be gobby about it. Most are very suggestable and can be re-programmed. A few are real nutters.
If we demonise all Muslims and treat them all like Salafists, then especially the young ones will hate us, and think 'fck it' I might as well join the tough gang with the cool guns and black uniform...and kick your arse. We don't really want that.
...done
I've said this before on various political threads here, but lets remember something quite imnportant......not every single German was a Nazi, just because of Hitler. But, if we hadn't attacked those innocent people in order to bring Hitler down, we'd all be speaking German right now.
We are not going to tackle this problem with political correctness. In life, you sometimes get unfairly punished just through the association of others. When English clubs were banned from Europe in the late 80's, not every single travelling fan was a hooligan far from it in fact.
So, when I go on Twitter and see all these snowflakes (Lib Dem supporters probably) saying this has nothing to do with Islam, or worrying about innocent Muslims being targeted, their attitude is disgraceful. This has everything to do with Islam, and every single Muslim carries the responsibility for it. These nutters are being protected by their community and Mosques, we need to be more heavy handed to root them out
If we don't, then our great, great grandchildren will end up praying to Allah, as they will end up red squirrels living in a forest full of grey ones
We are not going to tackle this problem with political correctness. In life, you sometimes get unfairly punished just through the association of others. When English clubs were banned from Europe in the late 80's, not every single travelling fan was a hooligan far from it in fact.
So, when I go on Twitter and see all these snowflakes (Lib Dem supporters probably) saying this has nothing to do with Islam, or worrying about innocent Muslims being targeted, their attitude is disgraceful. This has everything to do with Islam, and every single Muslim carries the responsibility for it. These nutters are being protected by their community and Mosques, we need to be more heavy handed to root them out
If we don't, then our great, great grandchildren will end up praying to Allah, as they will end up red squirrels living in a forest full of grey ones
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cybernet69
"London Mayor Sadiq Khan said it was "a deliberate and cowardly attack on innocent Londoners", but it remained the "safest global city" and Londoners would not be cowed by terrorism"
He and the rest of them need to leave my country asap.
He and the rest of them need to leave my country asap.
The news from London, like the news from so many cities around the world over the last few decades is truly awful. It makes me despair for the world that my kids live in. The non-liberal part of me is glad that they were killed, rather than captured. They won't get out to do it again.
I try so hard not to get into political arguments as it is *never* black and white and it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and spout nonsense. It's also easy and understandable to be outraged at the awfulness and terrible things in the world - and let that outrage cloud our thinking.
But FFS.
How about
Or, how about drink driving? In the US each year, nearly 10,000 people, including women and small children, are killed by drunk drivers. That's three times the number killed in the worst single terrorist outrage, 9/11. So why are you picking on Muslims, who statistically, kill far fewer people through drink driving? If you've lost a loved one, it really doesn't matter if it's because someone drunk too much or because they believe that anyone who doesn't believe / follow Islam should be killed. It makes no difference. It's f*cking awful.
The ignorance of people who blame a religion (or country or other such grouping) based on the acts of individuals, is worrying. Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to violence and so the whole circle of hate, death and misery is perpetuated.
Personally, I don't like *any* organised religion, and for personal reasons, I've got a particular and very strong dislike of the Catholic church. But my sister is Catholic, I have Catholic friends and colleagues, I don't blame them for the atrocities committed over the last 2,000 years in the name of the Catholic church and the Catholic bible.
Incidentally, and again this is based on my own personal experience, there's probably never been a 'group' that has done so much good as the Catholic church (but in my view, it doesn't off-set the atrocities). It's just a numbers game - there are a lot of Catholics out there.
There's a common link here - to both the good and bad things. It's *humans*. Bad humans will do bad things. Good humans will do good things. Regardless of what religion they ascribe to, the colour of their skin, their chromosome makeup or any other factor.
Based on the first paragraph of this reply, you'll see I'm not some softy-forgiving-apologist. I'd would quite literally, rip the head of anyone who was trying to kill or maim innocent people. But I can't stand the ignorance and stupidity of people blaming "things" rather than people. It's people who do this - human beings.
Don't blame entire groups of people for the evil of the few. If you marginalise any 'group', they will withdraw and become more insular. That in itself is like pouring petrol on a fire - it feeds the radicalised ideology and increases the 'us against them' mentality.
I try so hard not to get into political arguments as it is *never* black and white and it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and spout nonsense. It's also easy and understandable to be outraged at the awfulness and terrible things in the world - and let that outrage cloud our thinking.
But FFS.
Yes it is. If you make a statement like that, you really have zero idea. Even if you put aside the selfish and partisan nature of politics, even if all politicians were really working so hard to do the best for the country, then it would still be incredibly difficult.
Why stop there?SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:43 pmGive all Muslims the free opportunity to take lie detector tests.
How about
- The Irish (still plenty of those who would like to kill and maim),
- the Welsh (the Meibion Glyndwr arson campaign that could have easily resulted in deaths),
- Catholics (even the Holy See uses the figure of 3,000 priests who have raped and abused children, and the reality is the figure is much, much higher),
- The Scottish (I'm thinking about Ian Brady, but best to round up all the Scots, just to be on the safe side),
- Norwegians (Anders Behring)
Or, how about drink driving? In the US each year, nearly 10,000 people, including women and small children, are killed by drunk drivers. That's three times the number killed in the worst single terrorist outrage, 9/11. So why are you picking on Muslims, who statistically, kill far fewer people through drink driving? If you've lost a loved one, it really doesn't matter if it's because someone drunk too much or because they believe that anyone who doesn't believe / follow Islam should be killed. It makes no difference. It's f*cking awful.
The ignorance of people who blame a religion (or country or other such grouping) based on the acts of individuals, is worrying. Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to violence and so the whole circle of hate, death and misery is perpetuated.
Personally, I don't like *any* organised religion, and for personal reasons, I've got a particular and very strong dislike of the Catholic church. But my sister is Catholic, I have Catholic friends and colleagues, I don't blame them for the atrocities committed over the last 2,000 years in the name of the Catholic church and the Catholic bible.
It's not the 'isis' bible. It's a bunch of words that a bunch of evil people selectively use to justify the unjustifiable. So, that'll be like the Catholic bible. Or the American Constitution.
More people have been killed, raped, subjugated in the name of Christianity than any other single group. So don't start blaming the Islamic faith and hold Christianity up as a model of 'goodness'.
Incidentally, and again this is based on my own personal experience, there's probably never been a 'group' that has done so much good as the Catholic church (but in my view, it doesn't off-set the atrocities). It's just a numbers game - there are a lot of Catholics out there.
There's a common link here - to both the good and bad things. It's *humans*. Bad humans will do bad things. Good humans will do good things. Regardless of what religion they ascribe to, the colour of their skin, their chromosome makeup or any other factor.
Based on the first paragraph of this reply, you'll see I'm not some softy-forgiving-apologist. I'd would quite literally, rip the head of anyone who was trying to kill or maim innocent people. But I can't stand the ignorance and stupidity of people blaming "things" rather than people. It's people who do this - human beings.
Don't blame entire groups of people for the evil of the few. If you marginalise any 'group', they will withdraw and become more insular. That in itself is like pouring petrol on a fire - it feeds the radicalised ideology and increases the 'us against them' mentality.
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cybernet69
Having served in Northern Ireland, I have a view on the Irish. The security services always knew and still do know the ring leaders and where they reside south of the border. They should of been hunted down and shot like they were in Gibraltar. Stuff international law and human rights.EyePeaSea wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:46 amThe news from London, like the news from so many cities around the world over the last few decades is truly awful. It makes me despair for the world that my kids live in. The non-liberal part of me is glad that they were killed, rather than captured. They won't get out to do it again.
I try so hard not to get into political arguments as it is *never* black and white and it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and spout nonsense. It's also easy and understandable to be outraged at the awfulness and terrible things in the world - and let that outrage cloud our thinking.
But FFS.
Yes it is. If you make a statement like that, you really have zero idea. Even if you put aside the selfish and partisan nature of politics, even if all politicians were really working so hard to do the best for the country, then it would still be incredibly difficult.
Why stop there?SeaHorseRacing wrote: ↑Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:43 pmGive all Muslims the free opportunity to take lie detector tests.
How about
- The Irish (still plenty of those who would like to kill and maim),
- the Welsh (the Meibion Glyndwr arson campaign that could have easily resulted in deaths),
- Catholics (even the Holy See uses the figure of 3,000 priests who have raped and abused children, and the reality is the figure is much, much higher),
- The Scottish (I'm thinking about Ian Brady, but best to round up all the Scots, just to be on the safe side),
Emmm... Let's think - from that list off the top of my head, they have some things in common; mostly white and male. So really, don't pick on Muslims, let's do it to white males. Statistically, that's way more effective.
- Norwegians (Anders Behring)
Or, how about drink driving? In the US each year, nearly 10,000 people, including women and small children, are killed by drunk drivers. That's three times the number killed in the worst single terrorist outrage, 9/11. So why are you picking on Muslims, who statistically, kill far fewer people through drink driving? If you've lost a loved one, it really doesn't matter if it's because someone drunk too much or because they believe that anyone who doesn't believe / follow Islam should be killed. It makes no difference. It's f*cking awful.
The ignorance of people who blame a religion (or country or other such grouping) based on the acts of individuals, is worrying. Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to violence and so the whole circle of hate, death and misery is perpetuated.
Personally, I don't like *any* organised religion, and for personal reasons, I've got a particular and very strong dislike of the Catholic church. But my sister is Catholic, I have Catholic friends and colleagues, I don't blame them for the atrocities committed over the last 2,000 years in the name of the Catholic church and the Catholic bible.
It's not the 'isis' bible. It's a bunch of words that a bunch of evil people selectively use to justify the unjustifiable. So, that'll be like the Catholic bible. Or the American Constitution.
More people have been killed, raped, subjugated in the name of Christianity than any other single group. So don't start blaming the Islamic faith and hold Christianity up as a model of 'goodness'.
Incidentally, and again this is based on my own personal experience, there's probably never been a 'group' that has done so much good as the Catholic church (but in my view, it doesn't off-set the atrocities). It's just a numbers game - there are a lot of Catholics out there.
There's a common link here - to both the good and bad things. It's *humans*. Bad humans will do bad things. Good humans will do good things. Regardless of what religion they ascribe to, the colour of their skin, their chromosome makeup or any other factor.
Based on the first paragraph of this reply, you'll see I'm not some softy-forgiving-apologist. I'd would quite literally, rip the head of anyone who was trying to kill or maim innocent people. But I can't stand the ignorance and stupidity of people blaming "things" rather than people. It's people who do this - human beings.
Don't blame entire groups of people for the evil of the few. If you marginalise any 'group', they will withdraw and become more insular. That in itself is like pouring petrol on a fire - it feeds the radicalised ideology and increases the 'us against them' mentality.
Muslims should be sterilised and sent to Israel, they know how to deal with scum bags.
I have no time for left wing, lets hold hands, tree hugging numpties. We do live in a divided country.
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Nero Tulip
- Posts: 708
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:29 pm
What Shaun said. The problem sits with the wahhabis. An older article written by Nassim Taleb, not known to be wrong about many things, and I wouldn't ever fancy my chances of persuading him he ever was.. http://www.politico.eu/article/the-saud ... -violence/
I also read some stuff a while ago about what they teach their children at school and was horrified at it, can't find the article now. It's strange the degree to which this gets virtually no coverage, it's not widely known at all.. all very convenient when you're doing plenty of deals with the country. It has to be the single biggest geo political hypocrisy / cover up in the world today. Fair play to the Muslim woman in the crowd of the previous question time who raised this as an issue, I thought that was probably quite a brave thing to do.
I also read some stuff a while ago about what they teach their children at school and was horrified at it, can't find the article now. It's strange the degree to which this gets virtually no coverage, it's not widely known at all.. all very convenient when you're doing plenty of deals with the country. It has to be the single biggest geo political hypocrisy / cover up in the world today. Fair play to the Muslim woman in the crowd of the previous question time who raised this as an issue, I thought that was probably quite a brave thing to do.
I think we have seen the only countries who realise Muslims are a risk to their way of life are the UK and the US, possibly Australia too but the rest of them are weak as piss who are too PC to see what is going on in front of their eyes!! Things will only get worse if Corbyn gets in (can't for the life of me see how he can) but I will seriously think about moving back to Australia (not a hard choice tbf haha).
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cybernet69
Shame we don't have the same strict immigration rules as Australia.Naffman wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:56 amI think we have seen the only countries who realise Muslims are a risk to their way of life are the UK and the US, possibly Australia too but the rest of them are weak as piss who are too PC to see what is going on in front of their eyes!! Things will only get worse if Corbyn gets in (can't for the life of me see how he can) but I will seriously think about moving back to Australia (not a hard choice tbf haha).
Blair was the one that opened our borders to every tom, dick and harry. He himself should be behind bars for life.
Agreed.cybernet69 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:02 amShame we don't have the same strict immigration rules as Australia.Naffman wrote: ↑Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:56 amI think we have seen the only countries who realise Muslims are a risk to their way of life are the UK and the US, possibly Australia too but the rest of them are weak as piss who are too PC to see what is going on in front of their eyes!! Things will only get worse if Corbyn gets in (can't for the life of me see how he can) but I will seriously think about moving back to Australia (not a hard choice tbf haha).
Blair was the one that opened our borders to every tom, dick and harry. He himself should be behind bars for life.
It is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to solve this problem without making Muslims as a whole feel targeted. Therefore we're left with the choice of politically-correct platitudes and hoping that Muslims themselves will root this out, or in taking actions which target and alienate the whole group. In the latter case, seems that antagonism quickly builds and society balkanizes. The former probably means some kind of internal civil war among Muslim in which we'll also be targeted. another violent split.
This no-win situation an inevitable consequence of the way in which we've encouraged mass migration and combined it with this bizarre political correctness ideology. These two things in a combination are a clear, clear recipe for disaster. I know left-wingers are primarily concerned with care for minorities hence their attachment to PC, but the naivety of this new religion is just amazing/awful.