Premium charge reduction thread

[andyfuller]

This is the link:

https://account.betfair.com/regpay-myac ... mmary.html

[PeterLe]

PS For those of you who haven't incurred the charge yet and wondered how far off you are..you can log into your account as normal (via a browser) and then navigate to :-

https://premiumcharge.betfair.com/PremiumPortal/portal

..and it will show you how far off you from working for betfair..

That link doesn't seem to work Peter

Hi LeTiss,
Best way to do it...log into your account first as normal on betfair (via a browser)...it will show your name and account P&L...then type the above link in the URL window (ie as if you were going to a different web page)...press return
It must associate the fact that you have logged in and will then allow you to open the portal...
Give that a try..
regards
peter

[PeterLe]

Hi
Sorry – Thought I would re open this thread..New Years Resolution; looking at ways of reducing my Premium Charges (PC)..Just looking for some advice..Am I correct in my thinking/logic below...

I understand that the Maximum Possible premium charge is 20% on the lifetime profile as is derived as the total charges compared with the lifetime P&L..
Charges are are derived as commission generated (or implied commission), Other charges (Data requests, exceeding 1000 bets/Hour etc)

So if you have good week (and assuming that it is a couple of days prior to the Wednesday PC calculation, thus enought time to do something about it) and your life time charges are less that 20%, it makes sense to either:-

A) Generate more commission
B) Generate More charges (assuming that the extra charges would result in more profit)

So if you were to employ point A above to lessen your PC charge, you could either win more (and pay more commission), or lose more (implied commission)...but I wouldn’t see this as a sustainable solution??

Point B: If you had a system that was profitable overall, would it not make sense to incur charges on purpose by running a second instance? For eg, Lets say the system produced an average profit of £200/Day (Running on 20/req/sec), would it not be beneficial to run a second instance on 20/Req/Sec also?
In this scenario, lets assume that you ran the second instance for 2 mins on each of 20 races, the extra data request charges would be :-
20 (races) * 120 (Secs) * 20 (req) * 0.1(Pence) = £48 Charges
This would provide an extra £148/Day ?
...and the £48 charges would be offset against the weekly PC charge anyway??

Does this make sense or am I missing something??

Thanks, appreciate any comments/thoughts??
Regards
Peter

Edit: Although the PC is taken on the Wednesday morning, is is based on the Monday to Sunday the week before...

[spreadbetting]

Data charges incurred can no longer be offset against PC charges.

[petardo]

As I said last year I will try use Bedaq.Yesterday was fine for some matches,but for most of them is no good.I traded manualy.It`s not hard if I do just pre ko.There is no way to do Betfair and Betdaq to avoid charge.If you hit big win on Betfair then you loose.The 20% is simply too much.

[Predicton]

Hi all,

I've watched this thread with interest.

As a perennial loser, the charge has no effect upon me and, therefore, I have no axe to grind, but I am absolutely astonished that Betfair have the "brass neck" to undertake this piece of blatant profiteering.

It's a typical example of the short termism rife in this country since the early eighties and is sure to end in Betfair tears and accompanying whining.

Good luck in your attempts to minimise its impact,

P

[sweetybt]

Increasingly irratic trading has raised my blood pressure but reduced my PC in 2010 despite a 20% increase in profits in 2010.

I saw this comment on the green all over blog http://dont-tell-anybody-i-ran-a-tipping-service.blogspot.com/

BTW I think the blog is fantastic. He writes with great clarity and generosity with a self effacing humour I appreciate. He reminds me of Nassim Taleb (Black Swan) in both appearance and writing style.

"
So, imagine someone who pays the premium charge, and also is on 5% commission, betting on the new

Betfair 'virtual coin flip' exchange games markets (I really wouldn't be surprised if they introduced

this... anything to make BF more money!)

The gamblers backs £100 at 2.06, and being an evens shot, they can expect to win as often as they

lose. So we'll look at the results after one win and one loss:

Gross profit from the win: £106. Commission at 5%: £5.30, profit: £100.70.
Losing bet: £100 loss. Gross win from both bets: £6. Total profit: £0.70

This punter has paid a massive 88% of their winnings in commission!

But wait, the premium charge comes to the rescue...

Let's say this gambler already has £1000 gross win for the week, with £100 paid in normal commission:

£1000 gross win, £100 commission, that's 10% and so BF add on a £100 PC charge => £800 net profit.

Now, add in the two coin flip bets: £1006 gross win, £105.30 normal commission. Thats 10.47%. Betfair

will still want their 20%, which is £201.20. Net profit now is £1006 - £201.20 => £804.80

Do you see? If this person DID NOT pay PC, they would have made £0.70 from their bets. But because

they pay PC, their additional profit is actually £4.80

Paying PC has meant that the gambler has made *more* profit from these bets. In other words, they have

a bigger profit margin, and could be making money from these coin flip bets by backing as low as 2.02."

[Iron]

Betfair told me (when I enquired about inactive account charges) that:

'There would be potentially a lot of abuse if we were to link accounts therefore we have decided to go on an account basis on these charges'.

If Betfair don't link accounts, could you not avoid the premium charge simply by using multiple accounts?

Jeff

[andyfuller]

Betfair told me (when I enquired about inactive account charges) that:

'There would be potentially a lot of abuse if we were to link accounts therefore we have decided to go on an account basis on these charges'.

You have kind of answered your own question - it is on an account basis for charges that it suits them to do it and not on charges where it doesn't suit them, i.e. the PC.

[Iron]

I thought it might be too good to be true...

Do Betfair link accounts when it comes to data usage charges?

Jeff

You have kind of answered your own question - it is on an account basis for charges that it suits them to do it and not on charges where it doesn't suit them, i.e. the PC.

[CaerMyrddin]

@sweetybt:

So basically you're backing or laying any given selection at around 2.0?

Dodgy!

I'll be curiously anylising the maths of this 'system'.

[mugsgame]

I have 2 accounts, 1 I use for experimenting new ideas and some automation. On my PC statement the second account is listed under the main account.

It's worth checking your statement even if you don't pay PC

https://account.betfair.com/regpay-myac ... mmary.html

It tells you how much you have won / lost and how much commission you have generated (= implied comm)

I should say that you should log in to your BF account page on your browser, then copy and paste the link into the address bar and hit enter

[mcfc1981]

Markets 47561

Gross PL £ 342,066.34

Commission Generated £ 81,951.94 +
Other Charges £ 0.00 +
Premium Charges (exc. last week) £ 0.00 =
Total Charges £ 81,951.94

Total Charges % 23.96
Max possible Premium Charge £ 0.00

guessing im about 68k away from paying it?

[Iron]

Hi Mcfc

I'm a bit confused - how can your commission be greater than 5% of your profit?

I wonder whether Betfair have included the Premium Charge in that figure.

Jeff

Markets 47561

Gross PL £ 342,066.34

Commission Generated £ 81,951.94 +
Other Charges £ 0.00 +
Premium Charges (exc. last week) £ 0.00 =
Total Charges £ 81,951.94

Total Charges % 23.96
Max possible Premium Charge £ 0.00

guessing im about 68k away from paying it?

[mcfc1981]

thats profit and loss i may have won a million and lost 700k